Just destroyed my SE/30

GerrySch

New Tinkerer
Mar 2, 2025
18
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Good morning all. This is heartbreaking to report. I've owned a Mac SE/30 for the last 8 years or so. When I bought it, the motherboard (MB) had been recapped, the CRT was bright and sharp and still is. For the past year, I've been sprucing it up, like replacing the Sony power supply with modern ones that have crowbar circuits (Thank goodness for them! They protected the MB from even more catastrophic damage) and a higher current rating. I replaced the fan with a quieter one and replaced the hard drive with a BlueSCSI desktop that also got the SE/30 on-line. I also added an 68030 accelerator card and replaced the Rominator II with a GW-4402B ROM Card. It was really shaping up and the last thing I wanted to do was re-cap it.

So, I bought replacement capacitor kits for both the Analog board and MB and tonight I sat down and installed the new capacitors. Now the MB had it's capacitors replaced when I bought it but whomever did it, did a really ugly job. So I was going to clean it up with Tantalum and electrolytic caps. I replaced all the caps being careful to observe polarity and properly installed with new solder.

I reassembled and powered up and it bonged! Great! But then the Mac shutdown. Weird. I looked around and checked things but couldn't find the problem. Powered it back up while monitoring the 5v rail. The 5v rail was oscillating between 0 and 5v at about a 2 second period and I saw some magic smoke escaping so I powered off immediately and pulled out the MB. C2 had burned up and was looking terrible. I went through the schematics for the SE/30 and found C2 was a decoupling cap for the 5v rail. After cleaning the board up, I rechecked the 5v rail and it's still shorted to ground.

I am so bummed out. The only way to find where the short is to put the 5v rail on a variable power supply and slowly bring the current up and use a thermal camera to identify where it's getting hot. I don't have those resources so there's little I can do. Also, this is a 5 or 6 layer board and if the short is inside the board between the layers, then it's toast. It could be a great candidate to repopulate a new MB but that's beyond my resources as well.

If anyone has any ideas I'm all ears. My wife is already upset with me that I've spent money to rebuild a 35 year old Mac that's only good to play games with. I just downloaded A/UX because I wanted to explore how that worked. Anyway, if you have a possible solution, I look forward to hearing from you.

A very sad Classic Mac owner,
Gerry
 
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Elemenoh

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Oct 18, 2021
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Occam's razor would indicate you probably introduced a short somewhere else when you replaced the caps. I'd carefully start undoing your work until the short is cleared. I'm guessing you have a trace running underneath one of the caps that was exposed and then shorted to ground during your repair. If so, you'll need to mask that trace before reinstalling the cap.
 

phipli

Tinkerer
Sep 23, 2021
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@GerrySch I doubt you've killed your SE/30 completely.

The most likely thing is that you've put the tantalum capacitors in backwards. Irritatingly, they're marked backwards compared to regular electrolytics. The symptoms you describe are exactly what happens when you put tantalums in backwards.

1744580723129.png


Its going to be fine :) worst case is you should replace all the tants because they've been exposed to a reverse polarity.
 
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jmacz

New Tinkerer
Mar 21, 2025
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And also ensure whatever kit you bought included 25V rated tantalums for the capacitors that will get 12V. There are a few of them. Most kits should have been updated by now but I only saw kits updating to 25V in the past year or two so you never know. It shouldn’t have caused your issue but good to ensure you have 2x rated tantalums on the 12V rails regardless.
 
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GerrySch

New Tinkerer
Mar 2, 2025
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Great point Elemenoh! I found a set of schematics for the SE/30 MB and have identified 5 caps that are used to decouple 5 volts around the board that I replaced. C1, C7(blew up), C11, C12 and C13. I know where they are on the board so I can check them.

Phipli, I asked the exact same question the night I changed these caps. I've not worked with SMD caps, so I googled what the stripe meant. It came back and identified it as negative. According to your pictures, the stripe means positive. Crap, if you're right, I installed them all backwards. I bought the kit from Console5. I'll email them.

Jmacz, I did check the voltage rating on the replacement capacitors and they were 25 volts. So I'm good there. I also prefer 105 degree rated caps over 85 degree rated caps depending upon how warm the interior gets. These caps were all 85 degrees but I had to use a magnifying glass to read them.

Thank you for your responses and I'll get to the bottom of this.

Here's my final question, If C7 was backwards and shorted, causing it to blow up (it's totally gone) why is the 5v rail still shorted? That bothers me.

Gerry
 

jmacz

New Tinkerer
Mar 21, 2025
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Console5 usually includes a little business card with their capacitor kits where they explicitly warn about getting the polarity reversed with tantalums. The card has diagrams of electrolytic caps vs tantalums.
 
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jmacz

New Tinkerer
Mar 21, 2025
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Oh and as Phipli mentioned, if you installed them backwards, you probably should get new ones and not reuse the ones that were reversed.
 
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Elemenoh

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Oct 18, 2021
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If C7 was backwards and shorted, causing it to blow up (it's totally gone) why is the 5v rail still shorted? That bothers me.
Tantalum caps fail short. If you installed them all backwards and some failed, they'd likely fail short and those caps you installed on the 5V rail would short it to ground. Or the other possibility I mentioned where you might have shorted a cap to an exposed trace somewhere.

Good luck patching it up!
 

JDW

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Thank you, jmacz. I've emailed Console5 for replacement capacitors and suggested the metal can types.
If the metal can types are fluid-filled electrolytic types and not aluminum polymer types, I say you should pass on those because those will need to be recapped again 20+ years hence. These days, I use OS CON caps because they have very low ESR, yet look stock. They'll be destroyed if you reverse them and power on, but they normally don't fail shorted like solid Tantalums do. Polymer tantalums don't fail shorted but they cost more than OS CON caps, plus their ESR, while lower than Solid Tantalum, is still higher than OS CON (polymer aluminum) caps.

If you absolutely MUST use Solid Tantalum caps, you also MUST properly derate them, regardless of what everyone else out there seems to be doing and getting away with. That means you NEVER use a 16V rated Solid Tantalum cap on a 12V-rail. No! You must use a 25V rated Solid Tantalum cap, and if you don't know or don't want to check schematics or be bothered, just get 25V caps, ensure the body will fit the motherboard pads, and then you are good to go, so long as you solder them in correctly.

But soldering something in correctly is yet another reason to go with OS CON. It's hard to put those in the wrong way. With Tantalum, you have to really be careful to avoid putting them in the wrong way.
 
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