TiBook G4 1GHz stopped recognising any ssd/hard disk

Peetz0r

New Tinkerer
Hey. I'm mainly a Linux/x86 guy, but I started collecting old laptops a while ago and I now also own 3 Apple laptops. One modern-ish 2013 MBP, one PowerBook 1400c, and most recently, one Titanium Powerbook G4 (1 GHz).

It came with a broken power supply and no harddisk. But that's no big deal since it's an IDE machine like most of my others so I had solid state replacements ready. And I upgraded the power supply board with a USB-C connector (more details later if people ask for it).

The optical drive is also broken, but I don't like having to burn cd's or dvd's if I don't really have to anyway. So I did the same thing as I did with some other laptops, and I figured out how to run PowerPC VM's in qemu on my modern laptop, and did the installation there, with the CF card in a USB card reader, attached to the VM.

So I installed 10.2.x and 9.2.2 on it, moved the CF card into an adapter in the machine, and it worked fine.

Then I started learning more about the machine and how it came with a 60 GB harddrive, and I happeed to find a 64 GB mSATA ssd for cheap, so I redid the installation on the new disk using the same method. I happened to have an IDE-mSATA adapter lyring around somewhere and that worked fine as well.

Here it is working perfectly fine.

At some point I was playing around with also booting and installing several Linux distro's and that also worked fine for a while.

Until at some point it didn't. It didn't see its disk anymore after I moved it back and forth between machines. Even though I did the exact same thing as I did multiple times before.

I tried the CF card again, and it also did not work. I tried both cards on my modern machine, and I could read them just fine. I could boot from them in the VM, and it seemed fine. So both of my disks are not damaged, an the data is not corrupted (or at least not very much). I also tried the disks witht heir IDE adapters and an IDE-USB adapter to make sure the adapters aren't damaged (those IDE pins always have a tendency to bend when unplugging) but those are also still fine. I tried a bunch of other basic troubleshooting, but there's not much I can think of to mention here.

The machine still works fine in all other ways I can detect. It can still boot from USB (honestly impressive for a machine from 2002 - even though the usb 1.1 speeds make this almost useless). This means that the power supply, display, keyboard, firmware, memory, and anything else I can think of aren't damaged.

I did a PRAM reset (cmd+opt+P+R). No difference. I tried removing the (very dead) PRAM battery module entirely. No difference. I tried letting it sit in a drawer for a day, no difference. I tried cleaning the connectors between the main board and the flat cable and the adapter boards with a 70% alcohol wipe, and again with 99% IPA and a tooth brush.

I even tried the original hard disk from my (6 years older) PowerBook 1400c with MacOS 8.6 on it. That also fails in the TiBook, but works fine in the old PowerBook 1400c and also in a VM on my new machine.

I also did some poking around in OpenFirmware, and when I look at the devices in dev / ls and I don't see any ATA devices in there. (note: I also do not see the optical drive, I'm not sure if it's supposed to show up without a cd/dvd inside).

The weirdest thing: it worked again exactly once after breaking, when I unplugged the optical drive for the first time during troubleshooting. But not ever again since that one time.

So, the main question here, is there any known issue that could explain my problem? Is there any troubleshooting step that I should try?

My main suspect is the ribbon cable between the main board and the IDE drive. I can find replacements on ebay, but those are almost $100 and that's not something I can afford. I also found this one for a lot less, but it looks slightly different and it might not fit, it might even be a sligtly different connector on the mainboard side.
 
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phunguss

Active Tinkerer
Dec 24, 2023
454
379
63
Stillwater, MN
Does your CF adapter and/or your mSATA adapter have a Master/Slave jumper on it? If you completely disconnect the optical drive from the chain, is the disk then recognized? I am guessing when you connect them to your modern machine you are utilizing a USB to single device adapter.
 

Peetz0r

New Tinkerer
When you say "doesn't see its disk," what appears on screen?
If I boot it without holding any key, the blinking question-mark-folder/finder-icon appears.

If I boot while holding option, I get the boot picker, but with zero icons (unless I also have a bootable USB drive pluged in).

What do you see when you issue a "boot" command from OpenFirmware?

It doesn't show the disk on the ATA bus where it should be in dev / ls so I assume it'll just fail with an obvious "can't find it" error, but I haven't tried.

[a few minutes pass]

So I just tried it and it indeed fails:

PXL_20251011_013243652.jpg


I also took some pictures ofdevalias dev / ls.

PXL_20251011_013309280.jpg


PXL_20251011_013355132.jpg


Meanwhile it has booted OS 9 from usb, and I have this screenshot from System Profiler.

PXL_20251011_010202353.jpg


(I also took a proper screenshot but I still have to figure out how to convert a 'Macintosh QuickDraw PICT' to something modern like a PNG, but... Mac OS 9.2.2 isn't that old, right?)
 

Peetz0r

New Tinkerer
Does your CF adapter and/or your mSATA adapter have a Master/Slave jumper on it? If you completely disconnect the optical drive from the chain, is the disk then recognized? I am guessing when you connect them to your modern machine you are utilizing a USB to single device adapter.
The CF adapter does have a jumper, but I didn't touch it since it worked. I tried swapping it anyway, no difference.
The mSATA adapter doesn't have a jumper, so nothing to try there. I do indeed use it with a USB single device adapter.

The optical drive is broken so it's suspect by default, and it worked once after unplugging it, so I tried that a dozen more times since. But nope, it hasn't worked again. The optical drive does enumerate fine in OS 9's system profiler (as seen above), it just spits out any disk I put in after a few seconds.
 

phunguss

Active Tinkerer
Dec 24, 2023
454
379
63
Stillwater, MN
The optical drive is broken so it's suspect by default, and it worked once after unplugging it, so I tried that a dozen more times since.
Right, so my suggestion is to remove it from the IDE chain to eliminate any master/slave conflict it may be having with your SSD, and try the SSD again.
 

Peetz0r

New Tinkerer
It could be possible the flat connector cable has developed an open trace. They are designed for a very limited connect/disconnect lifespan.
I'm afraid that's indeed the most likely culprit. I wish these were standard, or at least the connector part and pinout were known.

I tried cleaning the connectors again (also the mainboard side of the optical connector, just in case), no difference still.

I could live with it if it arrived in my hands broken, but it was working for a few days and it broke for no apparent reason. That's just too darn frustrating.

And to make it worse, someone sold one of those cables not too far away for like 1/10th the ebay price a few monts ago but there is nobody selling them for reasonable prices now.
 

Peetz0r

New Tinkerer
I'd look for an old FireWire enclosure. Since nothing supports those anymore, they can sometimes be had for cheap, and most of them are bootable. It will be much faster than USB 1.1.
OOooh that's very smart, I like it :)

Now I just need to find one of those somewhere. It looks like nobody is selling actual enclosures, but I do see some used external hdd's and I'm sure those are just regular internal drives with adapters in a box.