Cleaning up Family Apple "Collection"

Nycturne

Tinkerer
Dec 18, 2024
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My father tends to hold onto old computer equipment, boxes, and the like. It's not so much an intentional collection, just things never gotten rid of. Since I've been building a small collection, I asked if he had any of the old Apple stuff still, and while he no longer had the SE/30 (heavily upgraded), or the Quadra 800, he did still have the 7300/200 which I remembered had an OrangePC card in it. So of course I'm interested because this is a bit of nostalgia, and would be interesting to play with the OrangePC card a bit. I remember it working quite a bit better than VirtualPC back in the day, and did use it for some Win95 era PC games.

I've wound up taking quite a bit of what he's willing to give up. As he's getting older, there's quite a bit he'll very likely never use again, and after telling him that anything I can't make use of will be sold/donated once I check it, I started loading up a lot more than I originally was looking to pick up. APS external SCSI enclosures that hold a hard drive and a tape or MO drive, a couple old third-party ADB extended keyboards, other assorted ADB gadgets (including an adapter for PS/2 mice), boxed copies of MacOS 8, 8.5 and 9, along with RAM Doubler 9. Some old Apple II disks that I want to see if they still read. He threw a couple more (complete) OrangePC cards at me that I didn't even knew he had as well. The NEC monitor that went with the 7300, and of course the 7300 itself.

I still need to go back for the Apple II+ at some point. That has one bad drive that needs fixing, but otherwise still worked the last time I saw it with a color composite monitor. That one I don't think I'll keep, but I do want to restore it and find it a good home because it is in very good condition for its age, and still has the original boxes.

This will be a lot that I need to go through, and will take some time, so expect many small updates. But we can start with what will be the first steps: Broken plastics of the 7300 and the OrangePC cards.

Because of the old, brittle plastic, the power switch of course broke the first time I tried to turn it on to see if it still boots. Thanks to @alxlab, I printed out their replacement leaf spring. I have to either shave off more of the original switch mechanism to make it work, or go with the full replacement. Haven't decided yet, but at least it can power it on (most of the time) via the button in the short term.

The OrangePC cards though, this is interesting. A 550, a 540, and a 525. All three have their cables and boxes, and the latter two have their software and printed manuals.

The 525 is a Pentium 100 with 16MB RAM. But in the box I found a 200Mhz Pentium w/MMX upgrade from Evergreen and what looks to be the original 8MB RAM stick. Not sure the CPU upgrade will actually work on this board, as the 520/540 needed a custom version of the MMX CPUs that included an interposer which you got from OrangePC directly. Not sure if the 525 also needs it, and perhaps that's why the upgrade sits uninstalled. Need to dig in on that one.

The 540 is surprisingly stock. Has the original 64MB RAM stick, and what looks like a 233 MMX installed. Unfortunately, the interposer that Orange Micro used prevents you from getting the part number off this era of Intel CPUs. Will need to confirm it's the original CPU when I test it, but the test report from Orange Micro in the box says it should be a 233.

The 550 is the one that came out of the 7300. This was the step up from the 540 with 3D acceleration from S3, which barely anything supports. Oh well. It's been upgraded to 32MB RAM and while it originally came with a Cyrix 6x86 "P166+", it also looks like it has been upgraded to a Pentium 233 MMX (I'm not sure if this happened before or after I moved out). I found the original CPU in the box, so I have that on hand as well.

I am not actually sure what I want to do with the cards yet. I know I want to keep at least one to use for some Win95/98 era stuff. But there's no way I need 3. But I do want to make sure they are all functional before I move on. I'd love to get my hands on a 660, but these cards are already rare enough as it is. I feel lucky to just have one, let alone 3 complete units. I don't see much detail on the pinout of the cables for these things, so I might beep out the cable so someone could build their own. There's over a half-dozen ports off these things... that'll be fun.

IMG_0872.jpeg
 

Nycturne

Tinkerer
Dec 18, 2024
63
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WOWSAS! 😲 Looks like 1995-1997 S3 Graphics Goodness on board.

S3Trio64V+ 1995
ViRGE/GX 1997

Yup, OrangeMicro used S3 for the 400 series as well. These cards are all variations on the same basic design, so expect to see a lot of the same chips. The 550 and 660 are interesting because they are the only ones with any kind of 3D acceleration as far as I know (ViRGE GX and Nvidia RIVA 128 respectively). But considering OrangePC cards are practically unobtainium at the moment, I'm not holding out much hope except maybe for a trade of some kind for a 600-series card.

I'm not quite at the point to do much with the 7300 yet, as I'm preparing to image the hard drives so I can archive some of the files for my father. So I popped the 550 into my Quicksilver to see how well it would handle the newer hardware. It boots, it runs, but I ran into two big issues:

1) The CDROM support in OrangePC really doesn't seem to like the newer hardware. It sees the disc in DOS, and can boot into the Win98 installer, but there seems to be some timing issues leading to corrupted data? Any installs I attempt this way blue screen on boot, or some core service dies before you get to the desktop. About half the time I would even get "CAB is corrupted" errors before the installer launched, which seems to corroborate some sort of corruption when reading data. Win98 from the Easy Install also doesn't see any CDs using the CDROM driver... ever. I can tell OrangePC to give control of the optical drive to the PC Card via the ATAPI bridge. That makes the drive work in Win98, but not DOS. So I cannot install an OS from scratch using the 550 and the G4. Fun.

2) With the Easy Install Win98 image, I get no sound out of the sound chip. I can hear it power on the audio output, but I don't get anything. Using Sound Emulation, it works, but that's always a bit dicey because you can get audio hiccups from having to send the data across the PCI bus to MacOS to handle it with the 500s.

Next step I think is to try the 540 with its cables to see if I get a different result or not. And once the 7300 is imaged and cleaned, put the 550 back into it and see if the problem is with the card or the G4 (I changed too many variables at once starting from scratch on the G4).

I also noticed that someone over at 68kMLA has already beeped out this cable a couple years ago. So adding their work to the pile of documentation I'm accumulating on my NAS for this thing.

The fun of seeing Windows install itself only to not be able to boot:

IMG_0874.jpeg


IMG_0875.jpeg
 

Trash80toG4

Active Tinkerer
Apr 1, 2022
998
292
63
Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
HRMMM, 1995-1997 components on a DOS Emulator for Mac may or may not be compatible with Win98?

Maybe try Win3 for Workgroups or . . . heaven forbid . . . THE ARCHETYPAL BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH RELEASE!!! :eek:
 

Nycturne

Tinkerer
Dec 18, 2024
63
44
18
HRMMM, 1995-1997 components on a DOS Emulator for Mac may or may not be compatible with Win98?

Maybe try Win3 for Workgroups or . . . heaven forbid . . . THE ARCHETYPAL BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH RELEASE!!!:eek:

I can't tell if you are joking or not, but these cards were built for 95/98 specifically, and support NT if you're willing to give up some of the custom tools that Orange Micro wrote that only work on 9x. Orange Micro includes custom driver/boot disks for Win95/98 installs to load up custom drivers to keep the Win9x installers happy, and a drive image that has 98 pre-installed on the CD that came with the card (their "Easy Install"). This specific card is one I used a fair bit back when it was new to run games in Win98. I even have this card booting Win98 on the G4 today, I just can't do a clean install and have to start from Orange Micro's pre-installed drive image.

That said, the 500 series were also built for late 90s PPCs, not 2002-era G4 towers. There's no guarantee that the tricks they used to do things such as share the CD drive with the Mac were robust. One limitation I am already aware of is that you can't use certain CPU upgrades with these cards as it breaks them. I tried to offer my father my G4 upgrade for the 7300 back when I decided to retire the 8600 I'd been using, but it broke the OrangePC card, and so we had to take put the original CPU back in.
 

Nycturne

Tinkerer
Dec 18, 2024
63
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As I started into trying to back up data off the 7300 drives, started running into the bane of many of these systems: Quantum brand HDD. I managed to clone the Seagate HDD onto the BlueSCSI, but the Quantum HDD is currently in the middle of dying. Doesn't look like I'll be able to copy much of anything off that drive. But it looks like the data we're trying to copy off isn't here. That's both fortunate and unfortunate.

And Jebus is the plastic brittle... I've had to repair the power button, and the cover over the PCI slots is now shedding parts.
 

Nycturne

Tinkerer
Dec 18, 2024
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With the 7300 recovered as much as I'm going to get, started looking at the first batch of peripherals and software. A lot of SCSI things mostly. A good chunk of this will be going into trade pile.

Hardware
  • APS 128MB MO (Epson OMD-5010 Mechanism)
  • APS 1.2GB HDD (Quantum - DOA, Enclosure Works)
  • APS Turbo DAT (2GB I believe?)
  • Yamaha CD-RW in SCSI Enclosure (8x Write, 24x Read)
  • SCSI Zip 100 Drive
  • APS Stacking SCSI Connector
  • 50-pin SCSI Terminator (x2)
  • ThreeGee PS/2 to ADB Adapter
Software
  • MacOS 8 (Complete w/"I Brake for 8" Bumper Sticker)
  • MacOS 8.5 (Complete)
  • MacOS 9 (Missing CD, can probably get the CD)
 

ClassicHasClass

Tinkerer
Aug 30, 2022
269
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www.floodgap.com
Very good. My own 7300 has a Sonnet 800MHz G4, a Rage Orion and an OrangePC 620 (needs tweaking to start up with CPU Director), with two 18GB SCSI drives and a 24x CD-ROM. This is starting to strain the PSU, though, as noted when I tried a Sonnet 1GHz G4 and got random freezes which seem to be due to power sags. I'm probably going to replace both spinning drives with a ZuluSCSI and see if that gets me enough free wattage to put the faster G4 back in.
 

falecore

New Tinkerer
Oct 7, 2022
7
0
1
Very good. My own 7300 has a Sonnet 800MHz G4, a Rage Orion and an OrangePC 620 (needs tweaking to start up with CPU Director), with two 18GB SCSI drives and a 24x CD-ROM. This is starting to strain the PSU, though, as noted when I tried a Sonnet 1GHz G4 and got random freezes which seem to be due to power sags. I'm probably going to replace both spinning drives with a ZuluSCSI and see if that gets me enough free wattage to put the faster G4 back in.
How does your 7300 do with the G4 in it? Did you have to add any additional cooling?
 

Nycturne

Tinkerer
Dec 18, 2024
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How does your 7300 do with the G4 in it? Did you have to add any additional cooling?

While we only had a 450Mhz G4 joeCard instead of the Sonnet, we never noticed an increased demand for cooling with the 7300. But we weren’t pushing things as hard as ClassicHasClass is here.

Keep in mind the PSU in this thing is rated for 175W (EDIT: 150W), I believe. That’s your upper limit on heat dissipation for the entire computer.

I'm probably going to replace both spinning drives with a ZuluSCSI and see if that gets me enough free wattage to put the faster G4 back in.

Maybe, definitely worth a try. The spin-up loads of the drives can’t be helping much here.
 
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ClassicHasClass

Tinkerer
Aug 30, 2022
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www.floodgap.com
How does your 7300 do with the G4 in it? Did you have to add any additional cooling?
No, heat wasn't a problem (the Sonnets have their own CPU fans and there was decent air flow). This seems to be power budget and the 1GHz card just pushes it over the edge. One of those round tuit things - it did make a noticeable difference in Virtual PC though. As soon as the 3D card got into the act, however, it was too much for the PSU.
 

falecore

New Tinkerer
Oct 7, 2022
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I put a 400mhz G4 (zif carrier) in my 9600 and immediately encountered overheating and crashes, despite adding an additional monster fan blowing on to CPU. I wonder if I should try putting it in the 7300. What kind of video card do you have paired with it?
 

Nycturne

Tinkerer
Dec 18, 2024
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I put a 400mhz G4 (zif carrier) in my 9600 and immediately encountered overheating and crashes, despite adding an additional monster fan blowing on to CPU. I wonder if I should try putting it in the 7300. What kind of video card do you have paired with it?

That’s… unusual. Back when an 8600 was my primary machine, I had a 450Mhz G4 card (the joeCard I mention above) in there for a couple years. Even ran OS X on the thing. Nothing like what you mention here, and the 8600 has less internal volume for air circulation. The 7300 even less than the 8600. I’d say that heat isn’t likely your problem unless the die simply isn’t transferring heat to the heat sink.

How are you determining it is overheating? What cleaning have you done to clear out dust and/or old thermal paste?
 

ClassicHasClass

Tinkerer
Aug 30, 2022
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www.floodgap.com
I put a 400mhz G4 (zif carrier) in my 9600 and immediately encountered overheating and crashes, despite adding an additional monster fan blowing on to CPU. I wonder if I should try putting it in the 7300. What kind of video card do you have paired with it?
It's a Rage Orion, which is a Mac-specific Rage 128GL. Not a monster video card but not a slouch. I agree with Nycturne: I wonder if something else is going wrong. G4s aren't in general toasty chips. Have you been able to get any sort of temperature reading off it?