Color CRT that fits in Macintosh SE FDHD?

[JustAManicWarBoy]

hey gang,

I picked up a Mac SE with a superdrive and, sadly, the motherboard is corroded as hell. Looks like all the things that could explode, did. Restoring the Mobo will take a bit but what I really want to do is put a modern computer in this case. I know most people do it with an LCD screen but I kind of would like to use a CRT. This may sound silly, but the beauty of the design of this machine (IMO) includes the CRT monitor.

I figured I’d ask here if anyone knows a 9in CRT TV monitor that would fit in this case. I’ve been on Ebay looking at old 9” TVs (portable ones) and I have found one or two models that might work.

In regards to a computer, I have some raspberry pi’s lying around but considering N100 build (not really the scope of this - just giving context). But the idea would be to give a modern computer a vintage look. If the answer is “no” - that stinks but I Did find someone on YT who made a beveled resin lens(?) you can use over a LCD screen and then use shader glass or something.

Anyways, hope my question was clear! Thanks for your help fam.

 

[iantm]

I’d be interested to know the feasibility of this though my inclination is that all CRTs are not created equal, and even sssuming one could modify the analog board to work with the three color gun, it wouldn’t match the resolution of the Macintosh Monochrome CRT. But I await to be corrected on this.

 

[JustAManicWarBoy]

I’d be interested to know the feasibility of this though my inclination is that all CRTs are not created equal, and even sssuming one could modify the analog board to work with the three color gun, it wouldn’t match the resolution of the Macintosh Monochrome CRT. But I await to be corrected on this.

Would I need to incorporate the analog board at all? I think I would like to use JUST the Case and take out the internals.

My socratically-ignorant rough thinking was: find a 9in modern(ish) color CRT tv that can fit in the MAC Se case, and place the internals of TV into the Mac SE Case. OG Mac SE Parts would be removed and something something retro fit TV internals and input a raspberry pi. Hopefully thinking, a 9in TV from late 90s early 2000s would prob have composite - so hdmi to composite? the easy ugly way?

But, the CRT stuff is what I dont really know about.

 

[iantm]

Ah maybe. I don't know anything about how to bridge the video with a Raspberry Pi other than I'm aware such a thing exists. I mean — it's worth a shot, if you can swing the cost of the CRT and test out the video before worrying about the CRT/dongles/wires fitting in the case.

I'd still wonder though about the resolution of even a high quality sony display, it lacks the focus and resolution of the built in b/w crt. At best it might be fuzzy.

FWIW @zigzagjoe makes an LCD kit that fits. @JDW has a great video review of it. I'm considering it, though for me a big part of the appeal is the simplicity of the b/w.

 

[JDW]

The @zigzagjoe LCD Color Kit for the SE/30 is not compatible with the SE because PDS slots differ, and the computer architecture is different too. Even if a graphics card could be made for the SE, I doubt if the machine itself has the ability to effectively drive color video through its PDS slot. Not sure thought. Would love to hear the thoughts of ZZJ.

 

[iantm]

oh whoopsie. I made that same mistake myself, and I wasn't paying attention (assumed it was an se/30)

 

[zigzagjoe]

The SE does not have color QuickDraw in ROM. The video hardware is trivial but lack of color QD is the end of the line unless you managed to hack a Mac II series ROM into booting on a SE.

@OP: Most color CRTs have significantly longer necks than the B&W tubes and will hit the rear of the case.

 

[JDW]

Thanks for chiming in, ZZJ!
I'm embarrassed to say that you've told me that before, about the lack of Color QuickDraw in ROM. My memory is horrific!

 

[jmacz]

If the answer is “no” - that stinks but I Did find someone on YT who made a beveled resin lens(?) you can use over a LCD screen and then use shader glass or something.

There is someone on Etsy selling acrylic lenses for these compact Macs to put in front of an LCD. It works with @zigzagjoe ‘s kit and works with others - this seller also had an LCD kit at one point (although not nearly as complete or turn key like @zigzagjoe ’s kit) that works with standard vga input. I don’t have the link handy but you can search for it here on the forum.

I have one of his acrylic lenses, and I personally don’t like it. The glare gave me a headache and there was a slight fish bowl effect. But that was for the original solid acrylic version he first had. I think he has a new one that is hollow and might do better in terms of glare.

 

[sam256]

I did something like this during the pandemic by actually cutting open the CRT and using the glass to cover the LCD. It works pretty well at 640x480 resolution but higher than that there is some stippling on the glass that gives it a grainy look. Here's a picture of the CRT cut open (the phosphor just washes off). And here's what the final looked like. A raspberry pi is what's inside. (The sounds are fake. I stuck a little adafruit sound board attached to some small speakers that plays every time you turn on the power).

I did this a few years ago, and I posted the details on the "other" forum. I don't know if it's OK to cross link here.

 

[JDW]

A raspberry pi is what's inside.

Well, that's one way to "get color" inside a Mac Plus or Mac SE case!

I do think your use of the CRT glass is novel. You put a bad CRT to good use, which otherwise would have just be disposed of! But you probably needed something other than a Dremel to cleanly cut the glass like that, right?

The neat thing about the CRTs used on compact Macs is they are anti-reflective. Even the Macintosh 128K beat the LISA in that regard. The LISA is polished glass that's highly reflective. And of course, when you use an modern LCD without any covering, it too is reflective, and any acrylic cover you add to simulate the old glass CRT is perhaps even more reflective (not to mention subject to scratching). So I really like your idea!

 

[iantm]

That was my first thought — how did you manage to cleanly cut that CRT? I broke one my spares by mistake, and I don't just want to throw it away, so I've been pondering what creative things I might do with it; I have several other empty mac shells so repurposing that way might be neat.

 

[sam256]

The short answer is: very carefully.

The longer answer is:

1. Wrapped it in a heavy towel and broke off the vacuum nipple at the very back end/narrowest part of the CRT to eliminate the vacuum. (At your own risk, of course).

2. Use a diamond cutting wheel on a dremel at under 10k rpms to cut around the edge near the screen. It was important to go excruciatingly slow to avoid the screen cracking. It will crack if it heats up _at all_ so I really needed to avoid the temptation to go fast.

3. Once I separated the front, i went over the jagged edges manually with the front of the diamond cutting wheel to blunt them.

4. Water and a towel was able to wipe off the sliver coating inside.

5. I then polished the front and the back of the screen with a felt polishing wheel and cerium oxide. I'm not sure that did that much.

So, yeah, it actually was a dremel, but the key was just to go really slow and don't let it heat up. I mean REALLY slow.

I also 3d printed a frame to hold the LCD inside it using black plastic. That prevents light from seeping in around the edges and ruining the effect.

 

[François]

In this Instructable (step 3), the guy molded a perspex sheet onto the original CRT!

 

[JDW]

In this Instructable (step 3), the guy molded a perspex sheet onto the original CRT!

Very interesting! That article says he heated a 6mm thick acrylic sheet with a hot air gun and then laid it over the glass CRT (apparently to reshape the sheet into the form factor of the CRT) and later he trimmed off the excess.

 

[JustAManicWarBoy]

I did something like this during the pandemic by actually cutting open the CRT and using the glass to cover the LCD. It works pretty well at 640x480 resolution but higher than that there is some stippling on the glass that gives it a grainy look. Here's a picture of the CRT cut open (the phosphor just washes off). And here's what the final looked like. A raspberry pi is what's inside. (The sounds are fake. I stuck a little adafruit sound board attached to some small speakers that plays every time you turn on the power).

I did this a few years ago, and I posted the details on the "other" forum. I don't know if it's OK to cross link here.

You know, this was an option I was considering. This is awesome, thank you for sharing.

 

[Mk.558]

I should also point out that without an accelerator, your performance with a video out card will be awful.

https://tinkerdifferent.com/threads/rasterops-clearvue-se-pds-card-external-monitor-accelerator.1534/#post-11186

Around 1993-4ish we had an SE/30 that had a color video out board in it. You can definitely feel the performance hit. The SE will be worse, because it doesn't have the dedicated video hardware that the SE/30 does.

 

[JustAManicWarBoy]

The SE does not have color QuickDraw in ROM. The video hardware is trivial but lack of color QD is the end of the line unless you managed to hack a Mac II series ROM into booting on a SE.

@OP: Most color CRTs have significantly longer necks than the B&W tubes and will hit the rear of the case.

Thank you <3 This is super helpful.

 

[JDW]

I should also point out that without an accelerator, your performance with a video out card will be awful.

https://tinkerdifferent.com/threads/rasterops-clearvue-se-pds-card-external-monitor-accelerator.1534/#post-11186

Around 1993-4ish we had an SE/30 that had a color video out board in it. You can definitely feel the performance hit.

that’s basically what a stock Color Classic is. And that’s why it’s so painfully slow.

 

[Mk.558]

ya. I don't think I could endure a Color Classic without an accelerator. Which one? Obviously the Sonnet Presto Plus, with a '040, extra memory, and Ethernet too? Sold.

Which is funny because it's not that much different than the LC II. Over at VCF, there's a member there who loves to dump on the LC series, and I get it. But here's the thing. I have an LC II in nearly mint condition, minus a crack on the top cover corner (the lid design on these is about as awful as the Mac II/IIx/IIfx systems...so flaky and sketchy. At least with the IIvx/Q650/PM7100 you have a steel lid, even if the rest of the unit is ugly). It's not fast, but it's not intolerably slow either. It runs System 6. If you can't run System 6, then at least have an '040, otherwise System 7.0.1/7.1 is "eh".

Intolerably slow to me is the 512K/512Ke. But these days, we can't be so picky like we used to be. And as AppaloosaMac on 68kmla said to me, these days, it doesn't really matter what you have, they're all slow. Even if they have a Sonnet Presto Plus -- because, well, let's do a thing again and stick a 32 bit processor on a 16 bit data bus. Because we just...do that.

edit: Don't search eBay for a Sonnet Presto Plus. Just...no. Not for that kind of money.