Comm Slot II 10/100 Ethernet Cards

Androda

TinkerDifferent Board Secretary 2023
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Sep 25, 2021
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This is a stealth project I've been slowly working through for some time now. With Comm Slot II Ethernet cards being hard to come by, and often for high prices, it seemed like a decent target for recreation / re-engineering.

My approach here was originally going to be "remake the official Apple card" until I discovered that Farallon had made a 10/100 card. That sent me on somewhat of a research trip, digging into Ethernet hardware and compatibility for several weeks until I discovered a single-chip solution for 10/100 exists with wide Mac OS compatibility. The identity of this chip will not be revealed at the present time to ensure I can acquire a sufficient quantity of them.

Having found a compatible chip, I ordered a PCI version of it and reverse engineered it with help from the chip's datasheet. Because in case people didn't know, Comm Slot II is PCI with fewer pins. Only one interrupt pin is available instead of four, there aren't the 64-bit transfer controls, things like that.

Quite interestingly, despite being a 10/100 capable chip I'm only seeing about 150k per second max download speed (from Macintosh Garden) with the original PCI card installed in my G3 7300. There must be some degree of OS-side and extension-level driver handling which limits transfer speeds. But the hardware is capable of a 100 megabit link which should help compatibility with newer networking hardware that often doesn't like "plain 10".

The Comm Slot II card reaches speeds of around 70 to 90k per second download on my 6400. It's not exactly a speed demon and I'm wondering whether anyone else has experience with CS II Ethernet cards to compare speeds. Maybe pulling files from a local FTP would be faster, haven't tested that yet.

I can hear you clamoring for a picture, so fine. Chip numbers are redacted for reasons mentioned above.
1719399576191.jpeg
 
Oct 15, 2021
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This is a stealth project I've been slowly working through for some time now. With Comm Slot II Ethernet cards being hard to come by, and often for high prices, it seemed like a decent target for recreation / re-engineering.

My approach here was originally going to be "remake the official Apple card" until I discovered that Farallon had made a 10/100 card. That sent me on somewhat of a research trip, digging into Ethernet hardware and compatibility for several weeks until I discovered a single-chip solution for 10/100 exists with wide Mac OS compatibility. The identity of this chip will not be revealed at the present time to ensure I can acquire a sufficient quantity of them.

Having found a compatible chip, I ordered a PCI version of it and reverse engineered it with help from the chip's datasheet. Because in case people didn't know, Comm Slot II is PCI with fewer pins. Only one interrupt pin is available instead of four, there aren't the 64-bit transfer controls, things like that.

Quite interestingly, despite being a 10/100 capable chip I'm only seeing about 150k per second max download speed (from Macintosh Garden) with the original PCI card installed in my G3 7300. There must be some degree of OS-side and extension-level driver handling which limits transfer speeds. But the hardware is capable of a 100 megabit link which should help compatibility with newer networking hardware that often doesn't like "plain 10".

The Comm Slot II card reaches speeds of around 70 to 90k per second download on my 6400. It's not exactly a speed demon and I'm wondering whether anyone else has experience with CS II Ethernet cards to compare speeds. Maybe pulling files from a local FTP would be faster, haven't tested that yet.

I can hear you clamoring for a picture, so fine. Chip numbers are redacted for reasons mentioned above.
View attachment 16920

This is so great! Thank you, Androda!
 

Trash80toG4

Tinkerer
Apr 1, 2022
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244
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Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
Indeed! Love your work.

Thinking you could cram your design into a lower version of TAM/CSII riser's form factor? Looks simple enough in terms of parts count. Pigtailing the board to a panel mount connector for the backplane opening allows all kinds of tomfoolery! 😀 Not to mention opening your design to the well heeled TAM crowd, length of the standard CSII form factor is the only thing standing in the way of using that slot sans riser in the TAM. ;)



edit: Wondering if pigtail -> CSII backplane breakout board notion might be preferable even for your targeted machines?

Such would keep your design within the 10cm x 10cm SEEED square for economy's sake? How much does a six layer board in that format cost? Are you using six layers?
 
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Fizzbinn

Tinkerer
Nov 29, 2021
166
160
43
Charlottesville, VA
Quite interestingly, despite being a 10/100 capable chip I'm only seeing about 150k per second max download speed (from Macintosh Garden) with the original PCI card installed in my G3 7300. There must be some degree of OS-side and extension-level driver handling which limits transfer speeds. But the hardware is capable of a 100 megabit link which should help compatibility with newer networking hardware that often doesn't like "plain 10".

I agree on your comment about increased network switch compatibility of being 10/100 Ethernet regardless of any speed improvement over 10Mb/s half duplex Ethernet. ...but "150k per second"? Kb/s or or KB/s? 150Kb/s is slower than local talk (230Kb/s), 150KB/s (1200Kb/s) is 1.2Mb/s, well below even 10Mb Ethernet, maybe the limiting factor is Macintosh Garden or classic Mac OS TCP/IP stack? Local network tests could be interesting.

Thinking about it I wonder if there is any info out there on Classic Mac OS Ethernet transfer speeds. I think Farallon provided a data transfer tool that could measure network transfer speed. I know I have a Apple 10/100 PCI card in my beige G3, could be interesting to figure some test scenarios.
 
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PL212

New Tinkerer
Dec 25, 2022
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I have an AsantéFast 10/100 card in my 660 and would be happy to contribute to any benchmarks... I'm sure the NuBus interface itself is the limiting factor there....
 

Androda

TinkerDifferent Board Secretary 2023
Staff member
Sep 25, 2021
460
508
93
USA, Western
androda.work
Indeed! Love your work.

Thinking you could cram your design into a lower version of TAM/CSII riser's form factor? Looks simple enough in terms of parts count. Pigtailing the board to a panel mount connector for the backplane opening allows all kinds of tomfoolery! 😀 Not to mention opening your design to the well heeled TAM crowd, length of the standard CSII form factor is the only thing standing in the way of using that slot sans riser in the TAM. ;)



edit: Wondering if pigtail -> CSII backplane breakout board notion might be preferable even for your targeted machines?

Such would keep your design within the 10cm x 10cm SEEED square for economy's sake? How much does a six layer board in that format cost? Are you using six layers?
This is a two-layer PCB. The extra-long length to match the original doesn't add a lot to the overall cost when made in larger batches. Adding a second half that sits where the bracket goes is complexity that I would like to avoid.

Help me understand what the TAM/CSII riser is for - two PCI slots in the TAM basically? I don't see an overall specifically stated "goal" of the project, or perhaps I'm blind and just didn't see it in the thread anywhere.
 

Androda

TinkerDifferent Board Secretary 2023
Staff member
Sep 25, 2021
460
508
93
USA, Western
androda.work
I agree on your comment about increased network switch compatibility of being 10/100 Ethernet regardless of any speed improvement over 10Mb/s half duplex Ethernet. ...but "150k per second"? Kb/s or or KB/s? 150Kb/s is slower than local talk (230Kb/s), 150KB/s (1200Kb/s) is 1.2Mb/s, well below even 10Mb Ethernet, maybe the limiting factor is Macintosh Garden or classic Mac OS TCP/IP stack? Local network tests could be interesting.

Thinking about it I wonder if there is any info out there on Classic Mac OS Ethernet transfer speeds. I think Farallon provided a data transfer tool that could measure network transfer speed. I know I have a Apple 10/100 PCI card in my beige G3, could be interesting to figure some test scenarios.
It's 150KB per second, kilobytes (not bits). Maybe something is up with my switch, just haven't been able to run down the networking permutations yet. I do have an older 10/100 switch that could be placed between the device and upstream to see if it helps - was hoping the native 100 megabit feature of the card would remove that sort of requirement though.
 

Androda

TinkerDifferent Board Secretary 2023
Staff member
Sep 25, 2021
460
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androda.work
I have an AsantéFast 10/100 card in my 660 and would be happy to contribute to any benchmarks... I'm sure the NuBus interface itself is the limiting factor there....
Almost certainly, yes. 100 megabit Ethernet would probably saturate NuBus entirely - though it's a 660, very nice 68k machine overall. If you could just download something "large" from the Maintosh Garden like the Tie Fighter install sit file (over 200 megabytes total, don't need to pull it all down) for example and show the network throughput it would be helpful.
 

Trash80toG4

Tinkerer
Apr 1, 2022
811
244
43
Bermuda Triangle, NC USA
This is a two-layer PCB. The extra-long length to match the original doesn't add a lot to the overall cost when made in larger batches.
Nice, thought it had to be a lot more than that, but i guess the chip was intended to be routed simply to the PCIe edgecard.

Adding a second half that sits where the bracket goes is complexity that I would like to avoid.
??? Now I'm confused. Wasn't clear at all in my post, I do them in the AM over coffee most of the time.:oops:

Thinking further about using your card in the TAM, it might work as is. Only the connector appears to be problematic. Been thinking you might just add provision for a Panel Mount connector/pigtail on the full length card or just leave it off in cards headed into the TAM. Something like this . . .

RJ45-panel-pigtail-2.jpg


. . . might be soldered into the connector's thruholes? Someone with a TAM might denude one of the useless CSII modems of its RJ11 to test if your full length card will be usable via pigtail in that machine when plugged directly into the logic board slot? Might be too long, but I'm hopeful. Apple's fumble fingered approach was limited by using the stock NIC in the TAM.

The SkinnyBACK had no provision for anything to escape the case to the outside world. I cannot believe they removed its cooling fan from the FatBack spec! :rolleyes:

Help me understand what the TAM/CSII riser is for - two PCI slots in the TAM basically? I don't see an overall specifically stated "goal" of the project, or perhaps I'm blind and just didn't see it in the thread anywhere.
The TAM/CSII riser thread is almost entirely about using the PicoPSU to feed a pair of energy hungry PCI cards on the TwinSlot riser in the other thread.

I'll be looking into recreating the ComSlot riser in the process if I can so folks will be able to use your new card in the old fashioned way if they don't have a riser already. One of the guys in AUS lacks that board, they seem to be in short supply?


I'm almost entirely visual, so getting things across, making my thoughts clear in TXT is a difficult thing for me.
 
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