Finding a specific DRAM chip for PB500

lilliputian

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Mar 6, 2022
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Hey all!

Inspired by @Branchus 's latest video demoing Kero's new RAM boards, I wanted to return to and try to upgrade my PowerBook 540c's own RAM module.

RAM modules for the PowerBook 500 series are notoriously expensive now, and because the connector no longer exists, new boards cannot be fabbed. But assuming a board has the empty spots for them, it should be simple enough to add more chips of the same type already installed in order to upgrade it. This was actually discussed on 68kMLA at one point, and the experiments were successful.

My PowerBook's RAM module is a no-name 16MB card and looks like this:

PXL_20230129_091441680_whitepoint.pngPXL_20230129_091537497_whitepoint.png

As we can see, it has 8 DRAM chips (thus 2MB apiece), plus some I assume logic ICs. And luckily, it has 8 bare spots for additional chips, making this a perfect candidate for upgrading to 36MB.

The DRAMs are model number MCM517400BT-60. After doing some research with the data sheets, I discovered that they are Revision B's of the "Motorola 517400" (apparently a 'x4 2000 refresh cycle' CMOS DRAM, to be specific), fitted in a 0.300 inch TSOP II (thin small outline package, with the legs on the long sides of the component), and of course running at 60ns.

The original 517400, which I'll call Revision 'A', is part # "MCM517400T-60" (no revision letter), while the Revision C is "MCM517400CT-60". If we replace the 'T' with a 'J', they become SOJ packages (small outline package, J-leaded), which would be unsuitable, as outlined below.

Based on my research, the C version appears to be nearly identical to the B version, with the only differences appearing to be slightly better minimum stats on the 50ns variant, which obviously doesn't concern us since we're in need of the 60ns versions. However, the difference between the B/C and the original A version is significant, not least of which because the A version is packaged in a 0.400 inch TSOP, rather than 0.300. Although this number seems to refer to the thickness of the package, the 0.400 inch TSOP also happens to be a bit longer, meaning it wouldn't fit the available footprints, even if nothing else had changed.

Unfortunately I'm having trouble finding any RAM modules that have either the 517400BT-60 or the 517400CT-60 on them. Interestingly enough, although I don't need any new boards for this project, the 517400 series is listed as compatible with Kero's RAM project on his website.

If anyone has any suggestions, I would be very interested! Either the bare chips, or a sacrificial SIMM or DIMM module. The SOJ versions seem to be more common, which would be fine, except sadly, space is very tight inside the PowerBook 500.
 
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Drake

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You can reference the part numbers from this pdf for the other 4mx4(16) chips, speed won't matter but I like to keep them the same. I see some results from UTsource for other options in sop or tsop, either package will work if 24p.

I did the same with my PB180 recently and populated the 4mb add on to 10mb
 

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lilliputian

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Mar 6, 2022
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I had seen that list as linked on Kero's site, but I guess what I wonder is, even if the pinouts are the same, is it safe to mix-and-match different brands like that? Or would I have to remove the DRAMs that are already there and then somehow find 16 chips instead of 8? Definitely not a RAM expert (hence my somewhat deep dive into the specifics of the ones that are on my card).

EDIT: @Drake Thank you for sharing. I had actually come across that "America II Cross Reference" catalog as well in my research!
 
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Paralel

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Dec 14, 2022
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I had seen that list as linked on Kero's site, but I guess what I wonder is, even if the pinouts are the same, is it safe to mix-and-match different brands like that? Or would I have to remove the DRAMs that are already there and then somehow find 16 chips instead of 8? Definitely not a RAM expert (hence my somewhat deep dive into the specifics of the ones that are on my card).

EDIT: @Drake Thank you for sharing. I had actually come across that "America II Cross Reference" catalog as well in my research!

As long as the specs match between the chips 100% it should be fine. If they differ, I'd say you have to have chips with all the same specs.
 
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Paralel

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So, it seems that www.icsource.com supposedly has some of the MCM517400CT-60 chips in stock, but having emailed them a Request For Quote, I have not heard anything back as yet...

I've honestly never had any luck with them trying to source chips, I'm sorry to say.

Actually, I'll send off an e-mail to my chip guy. He can usually get his hands on just about anything. Let me see what he says.
 

Drake

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I've honestly never had any luck with them trying to source chips, I'm sorry to say.

Actually, I'll send off an e-mail to my chip guy. He can usually get his hands on just about anything. Let me see what he says.
Everyone needs a chip guy!
 

Paralel

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I heard back from my chip guy, he has 500+ of the darn J type, but no T type on hand. He said he'd be willing to poke around and see what turns up if you want.
 

Paralel

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Sure! But obviously they needn't go crazy. I can always try the route suggested by Kai, but thought I'd give it a shot trying to find exact matches.

Sounds good. He said he should be able to get back to me by the end of the business day on Monday since most places aren't open on the weekend.

Edit: Sorry to say, he struck out. It's a rare miss. If he can't find them, they must really be unobtainium.
 
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