Kernel panics, freezing, and general boot failure on Power Mac G4 MDD

[mac27]

Greetings folks,

I could use some help diagnosing some weird behavior I am getting on a new-to-me G4 MDD tower. It is a dual 1.25 GHz model.

Problem: The machine turns on, chimes, and seems to work normally, but does not ever boot all the way to the desktop. The system always either (a) enters a kernel panic or (b) freezes midway through the boot process, either on the white screen w/ Apple logo or sometimes just after loading the pointer on blank blue screen.

I've tried reinstalling OS X multiple times on various drives - what's strange is that the install always succeeds (which takes 30+ minutes each time), but then the system crashes again upon rebooting.

Troubleshooting steps I have tried so far:

- Reapplication of thermal paste to both CPUs
- Removing PRAM battery
- Removing any unnecessary expansion cards
- Booting from various combinations of SSD adapters and HDDs
- Reinstalling OS X (several different versions) from scratch
- Re-seating CPU daughterboard
- Re-seating all RAM sticks
- Cold boot (left sitting for 24+ hrs)
- Various monitor, kbd, mouse combos

At first it seemed like a thermal issue, which is why I redid the paste, but now I am starting to think that there might be some damage to the CPU daughterboard or something of that sort. At the same time this seems unlikely, though, given that the machine makes it through an OS X install of 30+ minutes with no issues.

Below are some close-ups of the daughterboard in case they're helpful. I do also have a "MDD '03" model (single 1.25 GHz) on hand that I could try swapping in parts from.

Any suggestions here would be most appreciated

 

[phunguss]

So, it boots from install media and you are able to install the OS on this machine, or you are doing that elsewhere?

If yes, this machine, then I suspect whatever SSD/Adapters you are using may be the issue, kind of like the picky B&W G3.
If no, installing elsewhere, have you tried starting up in safe mode (holding down the shift key, you should see a gray progress bar below the Apple logo)?

 

[mac27]

So, it boots from install media and you are able to install the OS on this machine, or you are doing that elsewhere?

If yes, this machine, then I suspect whatever SSD/Adapters you are using may be the issue, kind of like the picky B&W G3.
If no, installing elsewhere, have you tried starting up in safe mode (holding down the shift key, you should see a gray progress bar below the Apple logo)?

Yes, booting from install media and that works fine. I also suspected it may be an SSD related issue, which is why I also tried it on several HDDs as well. Same result with those, which is why I'm stumped.

Either way, would it also seem to you that it's a compatibility/software issue of some sort, rather than a hardware problem? Would be nice to rule out a fried daughterboard etc ... lol.

 

[phunguss]

Yes, booting from install media and that works fine. I also suspected it may be an SSD related issue, which is why I also tried it on several HDDs as well. Same result with those, which is why I'm stumped.

Either way, would it also seem to you that it's a compatibility/software issue of some sort, rather than a hardware problem? Would be nice to rule out a fried daughterboard etc ... lol.

Yes, then I am guessing with you that it is software (mostly) and not hardware (unless its the drive issue). Did you try safe mode once installed on your SSD/HD? Are the HDD era equivalent (not too fast/new)?

My two PowerBook 3400c's would not work with some other HDDs nor with mSATA to IDE. But on CF to IDE they work great.

 

[mac27]

Yes, then I am guessing with you that it is software (mostly) and not hardware (unless its the drive issue). Did you try safe mode once installed on your SSD/HD? Are the HDD era equivalent (not too fast/new)?

My two PowerBook 3400c's would not work with some other HDDs nor with mSATA to IDE. But on CF to IDE they work great.

Interesting, yeah these HDDs are/were all era appropriate (pulled from various G3 and G4-based systems over the years).

But anyways, I happened across a fourth drive that I had laying around ... figured "why not" and hooked it up ... and lo and behold, was able to get Leopard installed and booting with no issues. Fourth time's the charm!

So let this be a lesson to future tinkerers, apparently the MDD is another system that can be very picky about drives. Looks like I'll need one of the red Startech adapters here as well. Thanks @phunguss for prompting me to take one more stab at it! And for the moral support if nothing else LOL. Also very glad this didn't turn out to be a mobo/CPU issue as the dual-chip daughterboards are not readily available.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Glad you figured it out! Here are DL links to AHT for fw400 & 800 mdds. Makes me want to break out my MDD now for PPCC2025

 

[mac27]

Glad you figured it out! Here are DL links to AHT for fw400 & 800 mdds. Makes me want to break out my MDD now for PPCC2025

Thanks! Yeah, this probably would have been a good next step had all the drives ended up failing as I do have the original AHT disk. Cheers

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Ahh boy lucky duck. I do not have the original disks for any of my PowerPC macs (would be a cool addition to my collection) LOL so lots of stumbling and bumbling around in the dark for me One thing that was so weird about your issue was that I have never run into an issue with a spinner not being recognized - definitely yes with SSDs but aside from broken spinners, they've always worked for me in my PPC macs. If you dont mind me asking, what were the makes of the drives that were causing you issues and which one worked?

I want to try to make one of my Powermacs fail this way now. (If only I had the time to dedicate to such tom foolery )

 

[mac27]

Yes, it was very strange! If I hadn't found that fourth one I probably would have assumed a much more serious hardware issue.

The models of drives that didn't work are:

- Seagate U Series 5 model ST320413A (20 GB) - pull from iMac G3
- WD Caviar WD1200JB-00CRA1 (120 GB) - pull from another G4 tower
- some other IBM drive that I can't find the info on at the moment

The drive that DID work is an IBM DJNA-372200 (22 GB), pulled from a Power Mac G3 B&W.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Well, you inspired me to pull out my MDD and work on it. I did have a SSD in there that failed so was wasting too much time sticking random HDD solutions in there seeing what failures I could create lol. Besides finding another one of my Apple 40gb drives in my junk box kicked the bucket, I found this little pata/sata gem. I picked this thing up about a year or so ago for $3 shipped from PRC off eBay. Knowing how picky PPC Macs are with these, I had zero expectation of this funky thing working but lo and behold, I fired up an old PMG5 sata Leopard spinner I had without issue with it.

Here’s the auction for those interested.

IDE to SATA Converter SATA to IDE Adapter Bidirectional Conversion Card Computer | eBay

Jumper Set to Master). SATA2: IDE Motherboard,SATA Device (the SATA Hard Disk is Used on the IDE Motherboard, Connect the SATA Data Cable to SATA2, and Insert the IDE of the Converter into the IDE of the Motherboard.

www.ebay.com

 

[mac27]

Well, you inspired me to pull out my MDD and work on it. I did have a SSD in there that failed so was wasting too much time sticking random HDD solutions in there seeing what failures I could create lol. Besides finding another one of my Apple 40gb drives in my junk box kicked the bucket, I found this little pata/sata gem. I picked this thing up about a year or so ago for $3 shipped from PRC off eBay. Knowing how picky PPC Macs are with these, I had zero expectation of this funky thing working but lo and behold, I fired up an old PMG5 sata Leopard spinner I had without issue with it.

Very nice! That'll work indeed. I ended up sticking a 128GB mSATA SSD with one of the red StarTech PATA adapters into mine and that seems to be working well. Cheers to happy MDDs!

 

[phunguss]

My 867Mhz MDD was purchased from Free Geek Minneapolis for a few bucks as a project because it did not power on. I tried the PSU cable mod with a standard, and I get power, but nothing more... it was set aside. Today at Free Geek there was a Dual 1.25GHz with 2GB ram for just over a Ben Franklin, so I brought it home. I received this 3.5" IDE to mSATA adapter from China for $9 and will try it in the MDD tomorrow. If it works, I may try it in the Cube as well, since there are multiple adapters in that beast and the power plug is upside down. This one comes on a cable, so you can orient it any way you like.

 

[phunguss]

Well, you inspired me to pull out my MDD and work on it. I did have a SSD in there that failed so was wasting too much time sticking random HDD solutions in there seeing what failures I could create lol. Besides finding another one of my Apple 40gb drives in my junk box kicked the bucket, I found this little pata/sata gem. I picked this thing up about a year or so ago for $3 shipped from PRC off eBay. Knowing how picky PPC Macs are with these, I had zero expectation of this funky thing working but lo and behold, I fired up an old PMG5 sata Leopard spinner I had without issue with it.

Here’s the auction for those interested.

IDE to SATA Converter SATA to IDE Adapter Bidirectional Conversion Card Computer | eBay

Jumper Set to Master). SATA2: IDE Motherboard,SATA Device (the SATA Hard Disk is Used on the IDE Motherboard, Connect the SATA Data Cable to SATA2, and Insert the IDE of the Converter into the IDE of the Motherboard.

www.ebay.com

That Red China Board was documented in our B&W G3 discussion as one of the only reliable ones I found.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Oh wow I did not put that together until you mentioned it. I think I might plonk another 5ver down for a 2nd one of those. Very handy foot print I think.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

My 867Mhz MDD was purchased from Free Geek Minneapolis for a few bucks as a project because it did not power on. I tried the PSU cable mod with a standard, and I get power, but nothing more... it was set aside. Today at Free Geek there was a Dual 1.25GHz with 2GB ram for just over a Ben Franklin, so I brought it home. I received this 3.5" IDE to mSATA adapter from China for $9 and will try it in the MDD tomorrow. If it works, I may try it in the Cube as well, since there are multiple adapters in that beast and the power plug is upside down. This one comes on a cable, so you can orient it any way you like.
View attachment 19444

I have another otherwise functioning single 1.42ghz MDD that needs a capacitor to be replaced that was knocked off w/ one lifted pad. It also needs a recap on the psu. It might be a cool ATX psu conversion but I’d rather recap it first and if that failed, then wire up a harness and proceed to the conversion. Anyways, too many projects and not enough time lol