Macintosh IIci video sync problems with modern LCDs

[robillanes]

Hi,

I have been working on restoring a Macintosh Iici for some time, and I've hit kind of a roadblock. After swapping battery-bombed motherboard with a recapped one, I have been able to install successfully an E-Machines Futura II NuBus video card, an Asante Ethernet card, a cache card, a BlueSCSI and additional RAM. The computer boots perfectly, but I have been unable to properly show video on a couple of LCDs.

I have a LG 24MP60VQ-P that does show video from the E-Machines video card, but I am unable to successfully show video from the internal video system. Moreover, when I connect the LCD to the E-Machines video card, the only resolution that I can manage to get is 640x480 60Hz, no matter what settings I set on the card or the DA15 to VGA adaptors that I use. The first time it boots from cold It also shows a set of colors too washed out, but that gets fixed after a reboot.

I also have a 17" SONY SDM HS73 from 2003 that I thought would play nicer with the DA15 to VGA adaptors that I have, but I have been unable to show anything on the screen produced by the IIci, either from the E-Machines card or from the internal video. It does work flawlessly with other vintage Macs like PowerBooks 520c and 540c, 3400c and Pismo G3, both with DA15 to VGA adaptors or native VGA connectors.

I have a 3 questions that I hope someone wise in this forum can help me answer:

1. Do you think the internal video could be dead? How can I test it?
2. Why do you think my SONY LCD does never show a picture from the Iici?
3. What can I do to avoid the washed up picture on the first cold start?

Thanks!

Roberto

Photos:

(1): Washed out picture from E-Machines card and LG LCD.

(2): Perfect picture after reboot

(3): 3 types of DA15 to VGA adapters used. The best results were obtained from the Mitsubishi model so far (it seems identical to the SONY MacView LX)

 

[Volvo242GT]

Hmmm, that's odd.

Can you get access to a CRT monitor, like the one shown in my avatar (the M1212 14" Macintosh Color Display)? I'd try something like that and see if the VampireVideo starts working.

 

[robillanes]

I am looking for one, yes. But they are not easy to find…

 

[Trash80toG4]

You need a very flexible Multi-Scan LCD panel to use with Apple's oddball resolutions. Most LCDs will only support VGA's 60Hz standard. Apple's "flicker free" resolutions intentionally avoid that refresh rate like the plague. Sync on Green is another complication inherent in Apple's "non-standard" video resolution set. Many IBM standard CRTs are single sync 60Hz VGA limited as well.

Dell OmniScan dsplays are very capable in terms classic Macintosh resolutions/refresh rates.

 

[robillanes]

You need a very flexible Multi-Scan LCD panel to use with Apple's oddball resolutions. Most LCDs will only support VGA's 60Hz standard. Apple's "flicker free" resolutions intentionally avoid that refresh rate like the plague. Sync on Green is another complication inherent in Apple's "non-standard" video resolution set. Many IBM standard CRTs are single sync 60Hz VGA limited as well.

Dell OmniScan dsplays are very capable in terms classic Macintosh resolutions/refresh rates.

I could not find any reference to DELL OmniScan displays. Do you have a link or something?

 

[Trash80toG4]

Sorry, found a reference for Dell UltraSharp in an old project thread:

Radius TPD/SE up and running . . . on an LCD no less!

Still need to get it set up for black on white, hopefully that's only a question of tying RGB inputs together at the VGA end of things, but my LCD success should give hope to others with SE cards dedicated to proprietary displays. After the Adjust in Progress screen dropped away, some patience...

68kmla.org

Took a pic of the info plate on one of mine, but it seems you'll need @MacEffects or maybe @JDW to translate.

edit: reread the thredd, I used a Dell UltraSharp of 2004 vintage Model 2001FP which seems to be the model number on the plate.

 

[Trash80toG4]

Looks like they're retaining value, dunno what I spent on them, maybe less, then again, inflation.

Dell Ultrasharp 2001fp in Computers/Tablets & Networking for sale | eBay

www.ebay.com

A couple seem to be going for about a Benjamin, but those are the 20" 1600x1200 LCDs. They work great for Macs if not the Radius TPD I was testing. But you'll never need 1600x1200 with built in video and only a couple of very rare, very expensive NuBus VidCards are capable of pushing that many pixels.

Several smaller panels are available for a third of that,

Dell UltraSharp 19" Monitor Desktop Computer PC LCD (Grade B) - Lot(s) available | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Dell UltraSharp 19" Monitor Desktop Computer PC LCD (Grade B) - Lot(s) available at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Any Brand 17" Monitor Desktop Computer PC LCD (Grade B) - Lot(s) available | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Any Brand 17" Monitor Desktop Computer PC LCD (Grade B) - Lot(s) available at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[JDW]

In addition to English, they put Japanese, Chinese and Korean on that label.

 

[Volvo242GT]

I use a 1908FP Ultrasharp with my G4 DA... Works well on that. Also wasn't too bad on the LCIII I owned until recently.

 

[Trash80toG4]

In addition to English, they put Japanese, Chinese and Korean on that label.

LOL! That little bit of English didn't even register as the model number until I searched the old thread, found it and put two and two together.

 

[Trash80toG4]

Cleaned out closet, this may be the one that worked pretty well in the Radius TPD testing. Ought to be great for any classic Mac.

 

[Trash80toG4]

Did you ever get something up and running?

 

[robillanes]

Hi guys, I managed to get it running, yes. I managed to get my hands on a DELL 2208WFP LCD monitor and it seems to like the sync on green signal from the IIci. It works both with the E-Machines and the internal video ports. I attach proof.

Thanks for helping me out pointing to DELL LCDs! Who would have thought!

 

[Volvo242GT]

Nice. Suspect the reason why I had SOG issues with the 1908FP on my old Centris 650 was due to the DIP switches being set wrong on the Sony MacView LX adapter I was using. Looked like this:

Overly green.

 

[wottle]

Trying to get my IIsi to output to an LCD and am struggling. I've tried with various dip switch settings in the Sony MacView LX (started with my standard VGA/SVGA mode setting). My Eizo FlexScan S1923 monitor claims to support sync on green. However, I am unable to get it to register any signal. Are there some other dip switch settings on the MacView I should be using?

Note, I confirmed the on board IIsi output is working with a Macintosh Color Display CRT. I confirmed the LCD works with other Macs by testing it on an LCII.

 

[scj312]

The VGA adapter I use is of the style of "the leftmost one above". With switches 1, 4, 6, 7, and 9 in the ON position, my IIci has worked well with every monitor I have tried, including several Dell UltraSharp models and a ViewSonic VG720.

I do have a Dell UltraSharp 2001FP that was mentioned above; I would not recommend purchasing this model. While I love the picture quality (and its features), the reliability leaves a lot to be desired--over the years mine has degraded to be barely functioning (VGA doesn't work any more, the menu doesn't work any more, DVI only works on certain video cards, and it likes to go into a test mode when turned off but plugged in). Other UltraSharps work well with the IIci, so I'd look elsewhere.

 

[carbide]

My adapter is a little different from all the ones above; it includes a dial that's used in conjunction with some of the dip switches for setting the resolution, and I think it converts sync-on-green to whatever the "standard" sync method is? It's a Belkin F3H1381.
The manual for it is insistent that there's exactly one setting that works with the IIci/IIsi and it spits out a fixed 640x480 resolution with a 35kHz horizontal refresh rate and a 67kHz refresh rate (which I feel like should be regular Hz, but maybe I'm thinking about it wrong). I've got a Dell 2007fp that works with it, but it can be a little touchy sometimes. If you can find a manual for your adapter, does it have any special notes about the IIci/IIsi?

 

[Windsor]

I have a Samsung Syncmaster 740B that is nice and crisp on my IIci and IIsi.