Portable SLEEPS even when it shouldn't? [SOLVED]

JDW

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Okay, fellow Macintosh Portable owners... I've got a question for you.

Mine is a 5126 Backlit model.

As we all know, the Portable has a 2-minute Sleep timer active by default, but in theory at least, you can tell it not to sleep. When running System 7.1, the "Portable" control panel has been replaced by separate "Brightness" and "PowerBook" control panels. Brightness is just that, nothing else. The PowerBook control panel offers Battery Conservation & Auto Wake-up features. Within Battery Conservation, there's an "Options..." button that when clicked allows you to set it so the Portable will never sleep when connected to AC Power. And that's the trouble! My Portable sleeps anyway after 15 minutes of no user activity.

1713782394686.png


I am using the Portable Battery Eliminator by @Androda, which allows me to use the machine without a Lead Acid battery. I don't think that has anything to do with this issue, but I wanted to post it anyway to get feedback from all of you, some of whom might have a working battery, and others who might have the Battery Eliminator like me.

QUESTION: Does your Portable ignore the PowerBook control panel and sleep after 15 minutes of no activity?
 
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JDW

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No feedback here on TinkerDifferent, which is always disappointing, but I tend to post here and on FaceBook too so as to maximize feedback. I've been having the following conversation, which one person contends the strange sleep is due to the Portable Battery Eliminator:

1713822785791.png


I personally don't see how the Battery Eliminator is the REASON for why my Portable decides to Auto Sleep every 15 minutes when I tick the "don't sleep checkbox...

1713822845389.png


My command to not sleep is just that. It's not a command that says, "Don't sleep in 2 minutes. Sleep in 15 minutes instead." And yet that is the result. And a gain, the only feedback I'm getting thus far is from someone who feels it's the battery eliminator. And this is why I reached out to my fellow Portable owners for feedback. I look forward to hearing your experiences when running System 7.1 and either having that checkbox ticked or not, in terms of Auto Sleep.

Thanks!
 

nottomhanks

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So, the Androda Battery Replacer says it does NOT deal with PRAM settings:

____________________________

Macintosh Portable Battery Eliminator​

$34.99 – $49.99

Tired of keeping a lead acid battery happy?
Get rid of the battery entirely with this. For wall-tethered usage only. Currently this does not offer a PRAM retention mechanism.

____________________________

Wondering if that has something to do with it..

Craig
 

SuperSVGA

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If I recall correctly the Portable uses the voltage drop through the charge MOSFET to determine when the charger is connected. It compares the charger side voltage with the battery side voltage, and if the charger side is higher then the power adapter must be connected.
So for example, with just the battery you'll see the battery voltage on both sides (6.4V for example). However with the charger connected (the charger will likely be current limited) you may see 6.8V at the charger side, and maybe 6.6V at the battery side due to voltage drop.
So with the only power coming from the battery connection on the logic board, the charger side voltage is never going to be higher than the battery side.

I'm not entirely familiar with the Battery Eliminator so I'm not sure what kind of voltage it reports, but it's possible that if it presents the full charger voltage as the battery voltage (around 7.5V) then even connecting a charger to the normal DC jack in addition to the Battery Eliminator might not make it think it's charging since the voltages would be too close to show a difference.

You can also see whether the computer thinks the charger is connected by opening the Battery Desk Accessory or Control Panel, usually available in the Apple menu. How it looks depends on the version, but usually there will be some sort of lightning bolt or plug icon that appears near the battery symbol.
Screenshot 2024-04-22 at 5.14.12 PM.png


The default ROM code for sleep only has the function to disable sleep if that setting is set and it thinks a charger is connected. You could manually set the sleep time to the max of around 63 minutes by manually editing the timeout in the PRAM or global variables. Setting it to 0 unfortunately causes it to reset to the default.
Perhaps you could edit the "charger connected" global variable, but I'm guessing another piece of code would change it back.

I would think someone would have made some sort of DA or something to prevent sleep (for presentations maybe), but I don't know of any off the top of my head. I know After Dark has a "never sleep" corner but I've never tested if that overrides sleep on portables.
 

JDW

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So, the Androda Battery Replacer says it does NOT deal with PRAM settings:
Wondering if that has something to do with it..
Indeed. There is no PRAM backup at all, which is unfortunate. But as @Androda said in another thread, that's because even if he did reveal the way to connect a battery such as a 9v (apparently there's a way, he's just not revealed it), the Portable draws so much current that such a battery (in theory) wouldn't last long. This is why he never revealed the way to do it. And so, when you install a Portable Battery Eliminator, you basically must manually do all of the following each and every time you connect your Portable to a wall socket:

1. Set the Date & Time (I use PRAM 5.0 so I can set a 4-digit year)
2. Set Brightness via the so-named control panel. (It's foolishly turned on, but at the lowest possible setting! Ack!)
3. Kill Auto Sleep (or at least try) via the "Powerbook" control panel.
4. Change various annoyances in the "General Controls" control panel. (I hate menu blinking, for example.)

The above are the Absolutely Must Change or I'll Go Insane settings. But if I have the desire, I may also change these too:
  • Volume (3 is low, although it keeps to keep all that crazy audio noise low too)
  • Memory Cache (default is 32K, but 128K is often optimal)
I'm a pretty honest guy, so I won't hide my feelings that it pisses me off I need to do that every single time I connect to a wall socket, but I understand the reason why there's no PRAM backup with the Battery Eliminator, so oh well.

With all that said, I don't see how PRAM settings could impact Auto Sleep once you have changed them in the manner I just described because once you change those settings, they remain set until you yank out wall socket power. Then the Portable Battery Eliminator's super capacitors will drain and all PRAM will be lost (along with a little of my sanity).

In other words, so long as you do as I do every single time you wall-socket your Portable (i.e., set Auto Sleep to OFF when connected to AC Power), then it should obey that. At least, it' only logical to conclude the computer should obey that checkbox setting inside the "Powerbook" control panel. And yet, it is not. It sleeps exactly 15 minutes after you stop activity (if you have that checkbox ticked).



@SuperSVGA
Wow! I wish to humbly thank you for that meaty feedback. That's no T-bone. It's a Porterhouse! 🥩 🤤

Your idea about checking for the lightning bold is great. I will do that either on my lunch break or after work and report back then.
 

JDW

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You can also see whether the computer thinks the charger is connected by opening the Battery Desk Accessory or Control Panel, usually available in the Apple menu. How it looks depends on the version, but usually there will be some sort of lightning bolt or plug icon that appears near the battery symbol.
View attachment 16283
My test is finished. My first discovery was that the "Battery" DA in System 7.1 doesn't look like your screenshot. It looks like this:

1713868335340.png

So I booted into System 7.5.5 and found there is no DA named "Battery". That compelled me to reinstall 7.5.3. But even then, no "Battery" DA. I installed the 7.5.5 update, but still no Battery DA. And while there is a control strip that pertains to battery, it doesn't look like yours. Even so, no lightning bolt.

I then rebooted into System 6.0.8, but I cannot find any Battery DA that looks like yours. Yours is a real mystery. Where did you get that vertical one?

While booted into System 7.1 and installed MyBattery and rebooted, but that didn't give me a Lightning Bolt icon either:

1713868458243.png


After that, I installed PBTools and restarted. No Lightning Bolt in its menubar icon either! I then did a test where I set "Backlight Dim" to 1 minute and "System Sleep" to 2 minutes in the "Running on Battery Power" section, and I set the "Plugged into AC Power" section all to infinity, as shown below.

1713868487244.png


If my Portable was on AC Power, it would never dim or sleep. But precisely after 1 minute, the backlight dimmed! And after 2 minutes, it went to Sleep! (Note that I had removed the PowerBook Control Panel prior to this, so I know for a fact Dimming and Sleep were under the full control of PBTools.)

Not yet convinced, I did a second test where I set the Battery Power section to 60 minutes as shown below. I then waited for 32 minutes and came back to find my Portable still awake with backlight at full brightness! In other words, it didn't sleep like it does when you set the PowerBook control panel to "never sleep on AC Power".

1713868619061.png


These tests prove that the Portable Battery Eliminator is in fact replacing the Battery and NOT REPLACING the AC Adapter. Meaning, the Portable thinks it has only a Battery but that the battery is full. The down side of that is that anything which is setup for "AC Power" will be ignored. Instead, your Portable will be treated as being on Battery.

Because PBTools is a nice workaround for the Portable Battery Eliminator "problem," I will just use that with 60 minute settings, which is long enough to be away from your Portable before it sleeps.

The main reason I wanted to disable automatic sleep is because of the Wake from Sleep freeze that occurs when WIFI is active on BlueSCSIv2. The workaround is to keep the BSv2 powered all the time, evening during sleep, but that requires a diode-isolated jumper wire be run from PDS-A2 to capacitor C16 on the BSv2. My worry is if that jumper is disconnected somehow, it's a male pin that could short on something.

Anyway, thanks to @SuperSVGA and @nottomhanks for replying and encouraging me down a path that led to a somewhat reasonable solution: PBTools
 
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Sideburn

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Probably not helpful and I don’t have a battery eliminator but I can recall that when I was having the wake from sleep issues early on where the machine would freeze for about 3 minutes after wake up when using the BlueSCSI, I had worked around it by forcing the computer to never sleep.

i remember on one of the system versions you had to hold down the option key to reveal the addition control to tell it to never sleep.

In other system versions I would slide the sliders all the way to “never” for battery and powered states.

If you’ve already been there done that and have found no solution (** I now see you got it sorted with PB Tools) another way to work around the problem is to install the After Dark screensaver and set it to 15 minutes. I’ve had this get in my way before when I wanted the machine to sleep and it wasn’t and found out that it was After Dark causing the machine to not sleep.

I think there might also be a mouse jiggler extension or something that will move the mouse after a set idle time. I know there’s a modern one for Mac OS called jiggler but I think there was also a 68k / PPC one as well that I had used back in the day to prevent AOL instant messenger type apps to never show I was idle.
 
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JDW

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i remember on one of the system versions you had to hold down the option key to reveal the addition control to tell it to never sleep.
The key to the Option key trick would be in knowing where and when to press it. Would that be in the "PowerBook" control panel?
 

Sideburn

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Ok I remember now. It was the System Rest. In older system 6.0.8

you hold option down and click “minutes until sleep” text in the Portable cdev
 

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JDW

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you hold option down and click “minutes until sleep” text in the Portable cdev
Thank you for mentioning that hidden trick. Unfortunately, that does not pertain to the AC Adapter, Battery or Sleeping. The trick you mention is only to prevent System "Rest" which normally drops the CPU clock speed down from 16MHz to 1MHz when nothing happens after 15 seconds.

However, in your screenshot, I spotted the same exact Desk Accessory? that @SuperSVGA posted earlier...

1713956621928.png

But for the life of me, I don't know how to invoke that in System 6. I've gone through all the System 6 installers and I don't see anything named battery. So if you or @SuperSVGA know how to invoke it, please let me know. It's probably super easy, but right now, I can't see the forrest for all of the trees!



Lastly, I should mention that because the Portable Battery Eliminator does not act like an AC Power adapter, instead only simulating a perpetually Full battery, there are times when you cannot perform certain tasks that require the presence of an AC Adapter:

1713956735076.png


😢
 

JDW

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I asked twice about this...

1714029449408.png


But I never got a reply.

So, I resolved to figure it out on my own. It took a huge amount of time, but I did figure it out.

Here are the steps to follow when you can't see "Battery" in your Apple menu while booted into System 6:

1. Download the Apple Restoration CD
2. Open: US Software Configurations > US Service Bundles > 694-0222 > 694-0222•0C637BE4• > System Folder
3. Launch Font/DA Mover.
4. Click the "Desk Accessory" radio button.
5. Select "Battery" in the left sidebar.
6. At right, click the "Open..." button and choose your System 6.x "System" file
7. Click the "Copy" button to move it to your System file.

It's a convoluted mess, I know, but it works. If there's a faster an easier way, please share that knowledge.

Ultimately, once you boot into System 6.x with a System file that actually has the "Battery" DA installed, then and only then will you see "Battery" appear in the Apple menu, and then you can finally see that ever elusive battery Full <-> Empty widget.

Whew!
 

Kai Robinson

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I asked twice about this...

View attachment 16308

But I never got a reply.

Hi James - Just adding my 2 cents here.

I must say that although I too feel frustration when I sometimes ask a question and don't get a response, I can understand that there are a number of factors in play here;

1) Macintosh Portables are RARE machines, so the subset of people that have them is even smaller than the small pool of Powerbook users out there.
2) Of the people that do own a Macintosh Portable that are also here, they may not be interested in the issue (ie, they may not notice, or be bothered by it), or if they are interested, are unable to contribute.
3) Real life commitments mean that some people might only stop in every few days or once a week - this certainly seems to be the case, looking at the overall membership stats.

Commenting about not getting a reply can sometimes put people off contributing as it sets a certain tone/expectation.
 
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JDW

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Regarding the Mac Portable, Kai, it could be that a lot of folks who owned them are no longer among the living. I remember the heyday with Dan The Apple Mac Man on EBAY selling Portables left and right for what was then considered to be premium pricing. Boy was I wrong! Today, EBAY prices are out of this world! The more outrageous the pricing, the few people that are interested in buying.

I also know the bulk of the online discussion about the Portable is stashed away in that other forum which shall not be named. Every time I Google, that other forum comes up. No surprises. It’s been around longer, and they still have the largest member base of any vintage Mac forum. (Naturally, we need to change that by attracting more people to this forum.) I’ve not posted in that other forum since July 2021 and that’s not going to change, but getting the info flowing on our vastly superior forum is the goal, of course. And when replies are slow here, I won’t lie, I immediately hop on over to FaceBook’s Vintage Apple Macintosh Enthusiasts group, where I sometimes get a reply within minutes. Not always, but often. However, sometimes the best replies happen here on TinkerDifferent. You never know which platform will yield the fastest or the best answer, but I prefer TD over FB any day of the week. TD is great for long posts, inline pics, PDF files — light years ahead of FB. But a lot of people are on FB, so I tap into those Groups at times when I’m in a hurry, which is most of the time. 😊

The more I use my Portable, the more I realize that the info I need is not found anywhere online. Most people tend to talk about bad caps and problems resulting from that, as well as display problems or bad batteries. Bad hybrids too. These days, so many people have a Portable that is in disrepair, they can’t actually use the thing. It’s terribly unfortunate.

Thanks to Thomas Andrews of Amiga of Rochester, I have a usable machine. It was not only recapped, but bad traces and bad Vias galore were repaired by Thomas. I chose him over myself to do the job because I asked if he had experience doing multiple 5126 machines and he said yes. I have zero experience with that machine. When you have a Mac Portable, it’s smart to go with an experienced person. Also, because I don’t have a working battery, I purchased a Battery Eliminator from Androda, which is great, but with some caveats I’ve only recently discovered (such as, it acts as a full battery but not as a wall socket AC adapter charging a virtual battery).

But even though my Backlit Portable is working, there are numerous surprises, many of which I’ve been reporting here in TD lately. Without a doubt, the Macintosh Portable is one of THE MOST fiddly vintage Macs I have ever used. It’s absolutely brilliant, but so frustrating at times. And because I only have the one, I have no means to compare. Imagine if you only had a single SE or a single SE/30 in your collection, Kai. I think we’d all go mad. But since these are too rate and pricey to own more than one, that’s where sharing info comes into play, and that’s what makes this forum so important. It’s that feedback I’ve been desperately trying to get. So perhaps we should talk about my “desperation.” 😊

It's true that I am extremely demanding. I don’t hide that. However, I am most demanding on myself first. I am significantly less demanding on everyone else. But even though I am not nearly as demanding on others as I am my own self, I tend to be more demanding than most.

For example, I demand that I, James Wages, respond to all incoming PMs, emails, Skype, iMessage, etc. within 24 hours as a hard rule, but typically I push myself to reply either immediately or within 1 hour. If I am away from home and see on my iPhone that I cannot supply the person with the files or research they require, I will either defer replying or better, tell them why I cannot send the files or research immediately, and that I will be on it shortly.

When you factor YouTube into this (and yes, I reply to every single comment in some form), I’m a busy guy. Most YouTubers don’t bother responding to all comments or even a tiny fraction thereof; but then, I’m not a full time YouTuber. I’ve actually been too busy with family, job, and replying to everyone that I’ve not released a video on a few months, and it’s beginning to worry me! Then again, my wife and I are in the midst of a home move, so I’ve got that excuse too, however a sorry an excuse that may be. Sometimes, I wish I were Superman. No. Scratch that. Flash. I want to go so fast time is almost at a standstill!

The reason I am so demanding on myself is because: (1) it’s my personality, and (2) I’ve lived in Japan 30 years. Japan demands a lot from people when it comes to satisfying the needs of others, and it has helped shape me over the years. On top of that, my personality is such that I want to do to others (e.g., give then super-fast replies) so that they in turn will hopefully reciprocate. I know they won’t respond as fast as I do, and that’s okay. (When they respond as fast as I do, I am pleasantly shocked.) But I do prod people for fun and for productivity. Why prod? To provoke a fight? To piss off others? Absolutely not. It’s because I myself need prodding at times. I do accidentally let an email or a commenter slip under my radar because my 53-year-old aging brain isn’t 100% as sharp as it used to be. Maybe it got zapped into the SPAM folder and I hadn’t noticed. So when the person who pushed me for an answer replies again to prod me, I actually am both grateful and apologetic at the same time. Grateful because they caught my attention finally. And apologetic because I demand near perfection of myself. (Yes, I’ve had a duodenal ulcer in the past. It goes with the territory.)

Even though I do unto others as I would have them do unto me (both good and bad), I realize not everyone is on the same race track I’m on. And again, that’s okay. Please just read my posts with an eye to who I am. I love my fellow man. I wish nobody any harm. I try to be nice in my own way. I want us all to get along.

BUT!

I also realize I can’t please everyone. Indeed, the more you say or type, the higher the risk someone will be offended, even if but slightly. At some point, you have to be decisive and just do things regardless of risk or complaint. And that is what I do. Be gentle, but within realistic limits. If all we did was cater to the emotional needs or to the delicate sensitivities of others, we’d spend all our time on that and not get much work done. One of the hardest things in life is in getting along with others, but we must get work done regardless of that.

The older I become, the more I understand about Steve Jobs’ personality, and how he wasn’t as bad a person as some have made him out to be. He was a man on a mission, going at high speed. In many ways, I’m like that.

Maybe what I just explained won’t please everyone, and maybe some folks out there will think I’m a terrible guy. But the world is very diverse. People are so very different. I think it will all work out just fine in the end if we all are just a bit more understanding of each other, realizing that other people often say or do things we would never say or do ourselves. Sometimes I say things I consider normal but which others consider rude. Even so, I press on. I try to afford my neighbor more freedom than I afford myself. That tends to work rather well when both sides reciprocate that liberty, but there are occasional bumps in the road.

Popeye said it best: I am what I am and that’s all that I am.

With that said, I never demanded a reply from anyone in this thread. I was seriously hopeful, and was on the edge of my seat with anticipation, and I let a little of that show itself in my last post. But I actually try to be transparent so I’m not one kind of person to one guy but then an entirely different person to somebody else. In the end, I found how to get the DA widget I asked about and then provided steps so others could more easily figure it out. I provided detailed steps because that is what I love to receive from others, whenever I need help.

I wish everyone a fantastic day!

James
 
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