Two SE/30 Boards - memory woes

[jonschwenn]

TL: DR; Board A is instable, but will boot with a ROMinator and 64MB of OWC RAM. Board B is stable, but refuses to boot with anything but a specific ROM/RAM combo.

This SE/30 project has been ongoing for years and I've done countless hours of testing because I was at a point where I could not trust any one component.

Board A is the original board. It was re-capped and repaired. It "works". It will boot and run, but after a few hours will start to be flaky, crash, and not want to boot for awhile. Board A has had the BMOW ROMinator II and 64MB of OWC RAM in it most of the time. It also crashed and "booted" to a weirdly high-pitched tone after a few hours of testing with old RAM and factory ROM.

Board B has been re-capped, repaired, and went through extensive testing with 8MB of RAM and a factory ROM. I had it running for 4-5 days without any issues. However, I wanted more than 8MB of RAM so I moved over the ROMinator and the OWC memory and it won't boot. The ROMinator with the 8MB also does not boot. These are matched sets and I've tried different positions. Board B only likes one specific ROM.

I know the 64MB is overkill and at this point I would settle for 16MB. Each time I swap the SIMMS I feel like I'm pushing my luck with the plastic sockets.

My questions:
[Board B] I feel like I'm missing something with being so picky about the ROMs and RAM. What is the best way to get stable memory?

[Board A] I'm undecided if I'm going to do a deep dive and try to find the issues or go the reloaded route. I feel like if it was a trace it would always be flakey. I'm open to suggestions. I planned to use this board in a clear case and add an accelerator.

 

[Nixontheknight]

SE/30s are picky about their RAM, so it's just a matter of trial and error to see what works, and for the memory, the ROMinator is slightly thinner and a standard ROM SIMM, I know BMOW said there was a way to make it work in another forum post, but it has escaped my memory

 

[jonschwenn]

SE/30s are picky about their RAM, so it's just a matter of trial and error to see what works, and for the memory, the ROMinator is slightly thinner and a standard ROM SIMM, I know BMOW said there was a way to make it work in another forum post, but it has escaped my memory

Good to note. I used 3D Printed clips to hold in the ROM on Board A. Board B has metal clips which BMOW says is good without additional clips/pressure.

 

[vtgearhead]

Regardless of the claims made about the metal clip style ROM socket, I would take a very close look. One of my SE/30 machines kept crashing with a CayMac ROM SIMM installed (metal clip socket). After studying it for a bit I realized that, metal or not, the clip was not pressing the SIMM completely against the plastic body of the socket. After a couple of careful bends with long nose pliers, it snapped in nice and tight and I have not had a crash since.

 

[jonschwenn]

Regardless of the claims made about the metal clip style ROM socket, I would take a very close look. One of my SE/30 machines kept crashing with a Ko-Fi ROM SIMM installed (metal clip socket). After studying it for a bit I realized that, metal or not, the clip was not pressing the SIMM completely against the plastic body of the socket. After a couple of careful bends with long nose pliers, it snapped in nice and tight and I have not had a crash since.

Thank you

"Good" OEM ROM - 1.36mm thick
"Bad" OEM ROM - 1.14mm thick
BMOW ROMinator - 1.25mm thick

Bent the metal clips to make it a tighter fit and it boots!!! Now to stability test with Board B, OWC RAM, and ROMinator.

If the RAM and ROMinator turn out to be stable then I wonder if the reloaded path is the best one for board A.

 

[vtgearhead]

yw! Glad it helped!

 

[JDW]

If the RAM and ROMinator turn out to be stable then I wonder if the reloaded path is the best one for board A.

I had an SE/30 board which had been through some repairs in the past, but which still had unexplainable intermittent issues that did not pertain to RAM sockets or the ROM socket. Leaked fluid had eaten through at least one trace underneath the RAM sockets, and the kind fellow I asked to repair the board in the past added a bodge wire. Even then the board had issues. I had it shelved for a very long time.

In the end, I had enough. I like things put to good use, and not leave them on a shelf. I wanted a pristine SE/30 board that could become my primary testing board, and which would allow me to add my socketed Daystar PowerCache too (which means some chips nearest the RAM sockets would need to be soldered, not socketed. I am a pro at thru-hole soldering but I stink like rotten eggs at SMD work, especially on those wicked chips that have their legs curled under them. So I made the decision to ship off my board to Will of CayMac Vintage for an SE/30 Reloaded Build. He just finished the job and tested everything. The board is now being ultrasonic cleaned. He even found that one of my Bourns filter chips was bad and replaced that. He also swapped the RTC chip out for one with memory (all at my request). The RTC with memory allows you to eliminate a PRAM battery in some situations. I asked Will to replace all the RAM sockets and the ROM socket too. And on top of that, he used the latest revision Bolle PCB, which he had made in a lovely matte black with gold Enig pads.

The cost to get the Reloaded board made by a Pro isn't cheap, especially for me since I live in Japan, but if you will be doing a lot of testing and need a very reliable board, it's hard to do better than a Reloaded. Also, Will is the only guy on the planet offering the Reloaded build as a service, probably because it's a very time consuming job. With that said, Will had done 65 Reloaded boards prior to mine. And that vast amount of build experience gave me reassurance he could do an excellent job. I plan to show it off when it arrives back in my hands, but I am simply sharing my experience to say that if its within your budget, a Reloaded board just may be the best solution overall.

One point of consideration though is that RAM sockets are no longer made, and pricing (not from Will but from sellers that Will and others buy from) are nearly $10 USD per socket now. For that reason, Will has started to move to SIPP RAM. He installs SIPP sockets which require SIPP SIMMs, and there is no compatibility for SIMM RAM anymore. Some people may dislike the loss of SIMM compatibility, but the SIPP electrical connection is better overall. So if you don't have a huge stock of 30-pin SIMMs, then SIPP wouldn't be too much of a burden at all.

 

[jonschwenn]

I had an SE/30 board which had been through some repairs in the past, but which still had unexplainable intermittent issues that did not pertain to RAM sockets or the ROM socket. Leaked fluid had eaten through at least one trace underneath the RAM sockets, and the kind fellow I asked to repair the board in the past added a bodge wire. Even then the board had issues. I had it shelved for a very long time.

In the end, I had enough. I like things put to good use, and not leave them on a shelf. I wanted a pristine SE/30 board that could become my primary testing board, and which would allow me to add my socketed Daystar PowerCache too (which means some chips nearest the RAM sockets would need to be soldered, not socketed. I am a pro at thru-hole soldering but I stink like rotten eggs at SMD work, especially on those wicked chips that have their legs curled under them. So I made the decision to ship off my board to Will of CayMac Vintage for an SE/30 Reloaded Build. He just finished the job and tested everything. The board is now being ultrasonic cleaned. He even found that one of my Bourns filter chips was bad and replaced that. He also swapped the RTC chip out for one with memory (all at my request). The RTC with memory allows you to eliminate a PRAM battery in some situations. I asked Will to replace all the RAM sockets and the ROM socket too. And on top of that, he used the latest revision Bolle PCB, which he had made in a lovely matte black with gold Enig pads.

The cost to get the Reloaded board made by a Pro isn't cheap, especially for me since I live in Japan, but if you will be doing a lot of testing and need a very reliable board, it's hard to do better than a Reloaded. Also, Will is the only guy on the planet offering the Reloaded build as a service, probably because it's a very time consuming job. With that said, Will had done 65 Reloaded boards prior to mine. And that vast amount of build experience gave me reassurance he could do an excellent job. I plan to show it off when it arrives back in my hands, but I am simply sharing my experience to say that if its within your budget, a Reloaded board just may be the best solution overall.

One point of consideration though is that RAM sockets are no longer made, and pricing (not from Will but from sellers that Will and others buy from) are nearly $10 USD per socket now. For that reason, Will has started to move to SIPP RAM. He installs SIPP sockets which require SIPP SIMMs, and there is no compatibility for SIMM RAM anymore. Some people may dislike the loss of SIMM compatibility, but the SIPP electrical connection is better overall. So if you don't have a huge stock of 30-pin SIMMs, then SIPP wouldn't be too much of a burden at all.

I saw your video and that's where I learned of the reloaded option as a service. I knew the boards were produced, but it would be a heavy lift for me to do the entire board myself. Thank you for sharing all of that and putting it out there!

 

[JDW]

@jonshwenn
Will Jacobs is shipping out my finished SE/30 Reloaded board this week, and I will show photos and of course do testing when it arrives.

I paid him to swap out RAM sockets with new SIMM sockets that have metal tabs, but the Global inventory of those is rapidly diminishing and the major seller of them had yet again raised prices to more than $12 each. That means in the near future people will either need to switch to SIPP RAM (which Will offers as an option) or the SE/30 Reloaded board will need to be revised by @Bolle to be compatible with 45° angle SIMM sockets which are still in plentiful supply.

 

[vtgearhead]

I'd definitely vote for the 45-degree sockets.

 

[JDW]

Absolutely. But again, that will require @Bolle to revise his circuit board to accommodate them. And it’s also important to remember that once that is done and people start buying them, eventually that too will run out in time because they aren’t made anymore either, from what I understand. And in the end, people really will have no choice but to seriously consider SIPP memory.

So it’s actually good that someone like Will had the foresight to prepare that kind of memory right now, for people who want to switch to it. And there are a lot of newbies in this hobby who don’t have tons of SIMM memory, so the switch for them will be an easy one. Especially so when you consider there is a IIci Reloaded board out there as well, and the NuBus slots prevent use of 45° angle SIMM sockets.

Would it just be best if someone took the financial risk to step forward and start making regular SIMM slots again? Sure, but they probably have to make at least 10,000 of them each manufacturing run and then figure out where to store them until they sell. And not everyone in this hobby is swapping out some sockets either. Plus, unless you make them in the USA these days, you’ll have to contend with some serious tariffs.

 

[Bolle]

will need to be revised by @Bolle to be compatible with 45° angle SIMM sockets which are still in plentiful supply.

Looks like those have a 500mil spacing between both rows. The sockets that were originally used have 400mil spacing. There's not going to be enough space to fit those I'm afraid.
But it looks like there are also dual row sockets with tighter 300mil spacing. Those could be made to fit additional to the existing footprints.