PB 1400 with very bad hinges

Yoda

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Jan 22, 2023
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I have a 1400c/166 which has had a very hard life. It actually runs really well, but was badly cracked in the usual places above the hinges on the back panel and I have left it opened on a shelf thinking this would reduce the risk of further damage while I tried to find out how best to repair it.

The left hinge was particularly loose, and I noticed the front panel had cracked down from the corner of the screen. Turning it around, I found the back panel has split right across from above one hinge to the other, so the plastics are totally broken.

Is there any way to repair this now? It was never really clear how the 1400 hinges could be fixed, but there's no intact structure left to glue supports or new screw mounts to.

Is my only option to try and find a donor machine for the plastic front and back panels?

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ClassicHasClass

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Aug 30, 2022
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Yeah, you're in bad shape here. On my 1400 (see https://oldvcr.blogspot.com/2022/10/refurb-weekend-powerbook-1400.html ) I was seeing similar evidence when the front bezel cracked. What happens is that the screws in the metal hinges/clutch assembly tear out of the plastic in the back and then the entire display housing will snap as yours has if it's not reinforced and restored.

Because my unit's back was still mostly intact, I just fused everything down with JB Weld (see the last couple pics of that entry). This means the rear can never be separated again but the epoxy is much stronger than the Spindlerplastic. I'll have to see if this becomes a problem later for the weaker parts of the display.

If the metal sheet in the back is still intact, you can probably fuse the plastic with acetone on the fracture edge and then bond that to the metal sheet with JB Weld (and then reinforce the clutch screw races as I did). If the metal sheet is bent or fractured, however, you're probably SOL.

I think this will soon be a serious problem for all PowerBooks prior to the G3 or thereabouts. This weekend I was experiencing the same sort of hinge failure on my 2300c and I'll likely be doing something similar to restore the display on that unit as well. Get in the habit now: open old PowerBooks with your thumbs on either side of the bottom bezel to support the clutches or eventually they will give way too.


 

Yoda

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Jan 22, 2023
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Thanks - and very helpful!

I didn't even know there had been a solar panel for the 1400 - that's way cool!

I've seen a 3D-printable cross member to sit behind the screen and provide new mounts for the hinge screws, and I had thought that might help before I discovered the back had actually cracked apart on the shelf. Thinking about it though, it may not matter that much the back panel broke, if I can glue the broken parts together and get that 3D part made, and glue it to the back.

I guess I need to see if I can find someone that can print the part for me since I don't have a 3D printer, and then see what can be done.

It's a pity there aren't new-build replacement plastic parts for the original screen casing - or indeed, the bottom shell of the 100-series which suffer brittle and broken standoffs - such as the MacEffects cases for SE or SE/30s, but I guess there's not enough of a market.

I had thought I might find a parts 1400 with good plastics and harvest the display plastics, but it's reasonable to guess they all have this problem by now, even if not quite this bad!

A great shame, this is an excellent laptop. Luckily I also have a 1400cs/117 which I bought new back in 97 and is in better physical condition, but that too is going to need hinge repairs soon - preferably before it gets this bad!
 

3lectr1c

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May 15, 2022
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Congratulations: You officially win the award for the worst cracked 1400 display housing! That is truly remarkable.

You have a few options here.

The 1400's hinge failures are twofold:
1. As ClassicHasClass described, the hinge mounts can break. This sort of failure can and does happen to nearly every 90s laptop at this point... it's bad.

2 (and this is the real 1400 killer). The rear housing itself stress cracks and eventually with enough time... well... you can see what happens. This failure usually happens independently to the first issue, although the first issue certainly can accelerate this one. At this point in time, due to how fragile the plastic has become, this problem will happen to 100% of 1400s if the hinges are used. A perfect one will be perfect for at most 20 hinge cycles before you see the cracks starting.

I recently went on a long restoration project on a couple of 1400s, which I documented here: https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/powerbook-1400c-166-restoration-combination-thread.44820/

As part of this process, I went ahead and attempted to reinforce the plastic around the hinges with this 3D printed hinge fix: https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/powerbook-1400-hinge-fix-shim.39921/

You can see the process to install it in my units in my restoration thread. As you'll see, it's a very frustrating and difficult one.

Unfortunately, it has not prevented the issue in my units. I installed the parts in 2 different units. One that was just starting to crack, and another that was 100% intact. I've been using the intact one with excellent non-stiff hinges like a normal laptop (not concerned about not using the hinges) since then for retro stuff, and I've just recently noticed a tiny crack starting on the left side. So, it isn't a fix. At best, it slows things down.
From the guy who created it though, it's likely that it would function as a fix if you already had bad cracks that you patched up with epoxy. It likely won't prevent damage from starting though.

I heard another guy say that he used wood filler to reinforce his 1400. They said that they applied a bunch of it all in the housing, placed plastic wrap over it, then reinstalled the LCD and other parts to make a mold. Says this has worked for them so far, but I haven't tried it yet myself though.

My experiments with the 3D printed parts failing doesn't bother me much. Neither of my housings were in good cosmetic shape anyway, so no pristine parts were lost. I'm just trying to see what works and what doesn't.

There was another thread over on 68kMLA a while back on the possibility of manufacturing new parts. We determined that it would be too expensive for the expected number that would likely sell.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, with the current state of your parts, I'd just recommend finding a donor unit. Your parts are pretty bad. Once you do though? All you can really do is experiment and see what works and what doesn't. No one's figured out a foolproof way to fix these cracking issues yet. It's an issue that befalls many models of laptops from this time, far more than just the 1400. We're actually pretty lucky that the 1400 is the only severely effected PowerBook.

What will usually work is copious amounts of epoxy of some sort after it's cracked. That however, is pretty ugly.
 

Yoda

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Jan 22, 2023
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That is both comprehensive, and also very helpful. Thanks for the details, and the links too. I hadn't really understood how these hinges were failing, and would probably have taken far more care of this particular 1400 if I'd known. At the very least, it would have helped to secure it with the screen more perpendicular to minimize load on the plastics - not to mention put it where it was unlikely to be moved accidentally.

It does rather seem like this particular hinge design is almost inevitably going to fail - even my original 1400 which had sat totally unused and ignored for more than 20 years, and had never been much used even before that is showing cracking behind the left-hand hinge, though that one at least presents the possibility of reinforcing it with the 3D printed part and lots of epoxy or plastic weld.

It is a great pity there are no new parts being made, though I understand why not. So aside from maybe experimenting somewhat, you're almost certainly right, that it would be more likely to fix it with a donor machine, which at least I could try and strengthen first. At least I'm not too concerned about aesthetics, so the end result doesn't have to look pretty!

Plastics in the late 80s into the early 2000s seem particularly poor quality, though I don't imagine designers and manufacturers were expecting these things to still be in use after all this time. It's still surprising though that some models seem to fare better than others, and of course it's not just plastics that are the problem, since there are problems with hinges in some of the Vaio's, Gateways and even other PBs such as TiBooks too. I guess they just got some designs less wrong than others!
 

3lectr1c

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With 90s laptops, there isn't a brand out there who didn't build a bad hinge/hinge mounting design.

TiBook in particular is because they just glued the hinge to the housing display-side. So yeah, that breaks! I think they also do snap in other places though too.
 

Yoda

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Jan 22, 2023
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It's ironic that my TiBook, which I've had since new, seems to have perfect hinges.... but won't boot. Actually mostly won't power on. Then sometimes it does.

Never did like it much though so it's just paying me back for that.

Even my PB 170 has creaky hinges these days. Makes me want to stick to a Tandy 100 or 102 - no hinges at all.
 

Yoda

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Jan 22, 2023
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I'll have a look for that - presumably 3D-printed shims for the hinge screws to fix into? I've seen these things for 165c and 180c models but they are thicker due to the casing accommodating a color screen.

I have a BlueSCSI v2 to replace it's hard drive too, but the risk of brittle plastics causing screw mounts to fail has rather put me off doing it!
 

Yoda

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Jan 22, 2023
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That's the same part I also found, so I've ordered a couple in ABS from a local 3D print place. Even if it isn't perfect, it'll be a lot better than letting the 170 go the way the 1400 did.

Sad the 1400 can't be fixed the same way!
 

Yoda

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Jan 22, 2023
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As a different question perhaps, are the 100 series display casings interchangeable? The 100, 165c and 180c obviously not due to size or shape, but 140/145/160/170/180? If so, I could source parts from another unit and repair/strengthen that, then swap the back casing in. That way I could reasonably safely leave the 170 as-is until the screw mounts actually do crack.
 

Yoda

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Jan 22, 2023
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I don't think I ever saw a 150, but I do have a non-functioning 160, or it might be a 165, somewhere I could use as a plastics donor. Physically it looked in great shape if I recall. Or with my luck it'll boot up when I find it!
 
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