Crucible for the SMC ROM SIMM

[tcole]

Thanks for interesting our SMC ROM SIMM, If you don't mind, please tell me who said ROM-inatorII doesn't work with Carrera040. or link (?)
I didn't check it for a long time, but I tried booting, testing with System7.1, 7.5, and booting the ROM disk with their combination, but there was no particular problem in my test.

I will test with our SMC ROM SIMM with Carrera040 if I have a time, see you!

Hey I might be mixing things up here. The ROM-inator II page says Daystar accelerators are not compatible:

Mac ROM-inator II | Big Mess o' Wires

www.bigmessowires.com

But maybe that doesn't apply to the MicroMac (or Bolle) Carrera040?

I have a ROM-inator-II and I just ordered one of your SMC ROM SIMMs. I also have a Bolle Carrera040. So I could test both when I have some time.

 

[Kay K.M.Mods]

Hey I might be mixing things up here. The ROM-inator II page says Daystar accelerators are not compatible:

Mac ROM-inator II | Big Mess o' Wires

www.bigmessowires.com

But maybe that doesn't apply to the MicroMac (or Bolle) Carrera040?

I have a ROM-inator-II and I just ordered one of your SMC ROM SIMMs. I also have a Bolle Carrera040. So I could test both when I have some time.

All I can say is that both Turbo040 and Carrera040 are compatible with ROM-inatorII. I think Steve Chamberlin expressed it that way because he couldn't test enough at that time.
SMC ROM SIMM is also compatible with Turbo040 and Carrera040. It would be nice if someone did a long test. maybe you
Turbo040 and Carrera040 are rare cards, so I don't know if it's worth trying, but people will love them with Custom ROM SIMM Cards!

@JDW is the only person I know who uses ROM-inator and Turbo040 together...

 

[Garrett]

I'm so impressed with this software! Really takes a majority of the guesswork out of programming for a newbie. For those of us with SE/30 reloaded boards, are there any plans to implement a "bitswap" option to generate .bin files for that use case? Either way, great work to all involved.

 

[Kay K.M.Mods]

I'm so impressed with this software! Really takes a majority of the guesswork out of programming for a newbie. For those of us with SE/30 reloaded boards, are there any plans to implement a "bitswap" option to generate .bin files for that use case? Either way, great work to all involved.

Hi, It was developed for SMC ROM SIMM. I think Bolle makes stuff for his SE/30 recreation, but this Crucible App has nothing to do with his product.
But thank you for having interest!

 

[Kay K.M.Mods]

Hi folks, Crucible has been updated to V1.1!
This update mainly analyzes icons and allows you to replace icons with Crucible!
I am very excited and I can tell you that is amazing App!

Here is my blog, explains how to create icons.:
https://ameblo.jp/keroxiee1016/entry-12795487099.html

 

[This Does Not Compute]

So maybe I missed it elsewhere, but here goes: Is there a way to get Crucible to either 1) output a single file to flash to a ROM SIMM (like when using a tool like the CayMac Vintage ROMmate programmer), or 2) merge the four files into a single one? (Just append one after the other in a hex editor maybe?)

 

[JDW]

... 1) output a single file to flash to a ROM SIMM (like when using a tool like the CayMac Vintage ROMmate programmer),
or 2) merge the four files into a single one? (Just append one after the other in a hex editor maybe?)

Colin, I cannot speak for Crucible v1.1 or a future v1.2 version that may add the functionality, but Downtown Doug Brown's SIMM Programmer 2.0 app allows you to do either, as I demonstrate here. The app works on all ROM SIMMs from all vendors, and I confirmed it to work perfectly with the CayMac ROMmate programmer v1 and v2 (CayMac store is currently closed while Will attends VCF), as well as the BMOW SIMM Programmer (no longer sold).

 

[This Does Not Compute]

Colin, I cannot speak for Crucible v1.1 or a future v1.2 version that may add the functionality, but Downtown Doug Brown's SIMM Programmer 2.0 app allows you to do either, as I demonstrate here. The app works on all ROM SIMMs from all vendors, and I confirmed it to work perfectly with the CayMac ROMmate programmer v1 and v2 (CayMac store is currently closed while Will attends VCF), as well as the BMOW SIMM Programmer (no longer sold).

Sorry, I should have been clearer on my use case -- I'm interested in using Crucible because it offers an easy way to customize the Happy Mac icon in the ROM. The SIMM Programmer app doesn't seem to be able to do that. So basically I'm looking for a way to take the output from Crucible and use it with SIMM Programmer. (I have a v1 ROMmate.)

 

[Kay K.M.Mods]

This is designed to make our ROM-SIMMs convenient to use, so we hope you will use our ROM-SIMMs...lol. At that time, many manufacturers were trying to develop ROM-SIMMs, so we also needed to differentiate ourselves. Please understand.

But...to recombine the four split files, the following steps can be taken:

The four split files U1, U2, U3, and U4 created by Crusible can be recombined with the following command with SRecode:

srec_cat U1.bin -binary -append U2.bin -binary -append U3.bin -binary -append U4.bin -binary -o rom_combined.bin -binary

For more information on SRecode, see my blog. *Here is how to split it into 4 parts:

『Tutorial, Create your own Bootable 2MB ROM SIMM 』

Finding cheap and delicious food can be difficult, but cooking yourself is a di…

ameblo.jp

Crucible replaced my ROM generation method with an app, which was programmed by Gean (aka. One-Geek-Army) under my supervision.

 

[dougg3]

So basically I'm looking for a way to take the output from Crucible and use it with SIMM Programmer. (I have a v1 ROMmate.)

Hi, I'm the author of the SIMM Programmer software (@JDW pointed me to this thread). As an alternative approach to Kay's excellent suggestion above, you can also accomplish this by clicking the "Flash individual chips..." button in the main window. This takes you to a new screen where you can check the four checkboxes for flashing IC1 through IC4. I'm not sure if U1 through U4 correspond with IC1 through IC4 or IC4 through IC1 in my software, but it should be one of those two combinations. I haven't tested this for a while but I believe it should work. Here's a screenshot of the UI in the programmer app in Windows:

 

[JDW]

After reading what @dougg3 wrote, I went back through my old emails from August 2023 (when I made my ROM SIMM video), and found that I did test what Doug suggests...

I used the Kero's Mac Mods "Crucible" app to create a bootable System 6.0.7 DSK image, then I used the app to generate the 4 files. I programmed the 4 files to individual chips on Kay Koba's 2MB ROM SIMM using the v2 SIMM Programmer app, then tested on my SE/30 by pressing "r" and "a" keys held down. It boots as a RAM disk​

​

In other words, you can use Crucible like normal, choosing your custom icon, then export the 4 files from Crucible, then use Doug’s app to flash those 4 files to the individual ROM chips, just as Doug said. It's really neat because you just leave the chips socketed in the ROM SIMM (sitting in your v1 ROMmate programmer), and then Doug's app will write the 4 separate files to the chips. In fact, I found another old email which contained my video notes as follows...

For 2MB ROM SIMM from Kero's Mac Mods:

1. In the top right corner of the ROM SIMM Programmer app window, click the "SIMM Capacity" popup and choose "2MB (4x 4Mb PLCC)".
2. At the bottom left of the ROM SIMM Programmer window, click the "Flash individual chips..." button.
3. You will see two groups of 4 checkboxes each. Put a checkmark in the top 4 checkboxes because you want to FLASH (not READ).
4. Click the "Select file..." button to the far right of "Flash IC1" and choose the "U1.bin" file you previously created with Crucible.
5. Repeat Step-3 for U2, U3 & U4.
6. Click the "Flash chip(s)" button. The green LED will flash rapidly on the Programmer, and a progress bar will appear on your computer. Please wait until you get a confirmation programming is complete.
7. Switch OFF the Programmer.
8. Remove the ROM SIMM.
9. With your vintage Mac powered OFF, insert the ROM SIMM carefully.
10. Power-on your vintage Mac, and press the "R" key to boot from the ROM. (If you did not use Crucible to create your files, then you will see a splash screen after power-on that will inform you that you can press either R or A. Only press A if you have at least 16MB of RAM, because it copies ROM into RAM, allowing you to save files (until power OFF).
11. Enjoy your newly created ROM SIMM!

I also found one of my old emails where I had created a custom System 6.0.8 disk image packed with nice apps, specifically for use on the Kero's Mac Mods 2MB ROM SIMM. I used FC8 compression to pack more content than would otherwise fit without compression. (No custom Happy Mac icon though.) It contains 4 individual files for flashing just as my 11 steps above describe:
https://tinyurl.com/4j9246ww

 

[This Does Not Compute]

Thank you all, this is very helpful! I have one of Kay's ROM SIMMs but picked up a ROMmate since, as mentioned, it's more convenient than having to remove the ROM chips individually for programming. Looks like I have several good solutions here!

 

[Kay K.M.Mods]

The new Crucible v2.0 beta app has been released and is available to download for free from our store page.

Additional features include:
-ROM file creation can be done in 4 splits, 2 splits and single files.
-In split mode, you can choose between 4 splits and 2 splits. This is for dividing into Lo and Hi, or LL ML MH HH. This is not a ROM SIMM specific configuration, but a general Mac ROM chip configuration.In addition, the reason for providing the x2 mode is that, specifically, when flashing data optimized for 27C256 to 27C512, there are rare cases where you simply want to double it. That's the reason.
-In Join mode, simply joins ROMs in series, which is useful for joining a BootROM to a BaseROM etc...

The new features are useful not only for ROM SIMMs, but also for ROM parts of vintage computers such as the Apple II and Macintosh.


https://en.infinityproducts.co.jp/produ.../smc-rom-simm-card

 

[JDW]

@Kay K.M.Mods
I see that @Drake did a nice job on the revised artwork!

 

[Kay K.M.Mods]

Our pre-made icons are free to use (Do not use in products you sell)
Download the attached zip file and unzip it
@This Does Not Compute introducing Icon changes in his YouTube video(16:46):

 

[JDW]

@Kay K.M.Mods & @Drake

Those are some very cool icons!

 

[iantm]

I am so new to all this that I have to ask: with a ROM programmer could I use this with either the 8MB BMOW ROMinator II or the CayMac Vintage MegaROM 16? I assume the ROMinator would work but I'm wary about flashing it before I know what I"m doing.

… ok, I watched the video above which suggests yes I could use this with any number of flash ROMS.

Wow — and here I thought I'd be spending months with HexFiend, but the Crucible is a big help!!

 

[JDW]

with a ROM programmer could I...

What programmer do you have or are thinking about buying?

Basically you have two choices:

1. ROMmate Programmer v2, which uses this software on a modern Mac or Windoze (proper spelling).
2. T48 individual chip programmer (not a SIMM programmer), with the Crucible software.

I have both programmers, along with ROM SIMMs from pretty much everyone SIMM vendor in existence today. I myself prefer to use the ROMmate v2 exclusively for flashing my ROM SIMMs because: (1) it's super easy to flash the whole SIMM at once, just like the programmer BMOW used to sell, and (2) not all ROM SIMMs let you pull out the chips to individually flash in programmers like the T48. Also, with the T48, it's a very general use programmer and you really need to know what you're doing so you don't screw up. Then you have to put chips in the right order on your ROM SIMM too, and the T48 basically takes several times more brain power to use than the ROMmate. Yes, I know how to use my T48, but it's a tool I tend to use when nothing else works to flash a chip. (For example, when I program and flash my Microchip PIC MCUs, I use Microchip's ProMate 3 programmer at the office.)

The v2 "ROMmate" was largely designed by Joakim Larsson, building upon the past work of Downtown Doug Brown. The software you need to even use the programmer was made by Downtown Doug Brown. Currently, CayMac is the only vendor of those programmers. It's very comparable to the old BMOW edition (which I purchased in the past), but the v2 is twice as fast.

I don't want to discourage anyone from using the T48 with Crucible. A lot of people misread me about that. People are very sensitive and feel if I don't praise a given product as much as I praise a competing solution, I must hate it, which is flat out wrong. I use tools that enhance my productivity. In other words, what I consider the right tool for the job. Speed and ease of use are important to me.

I believe the thinking behind Crucible and the T48 (or earlier) programmer was that if someone ever stops making the SIMM Programmers (like BMOW did in the past), then people on our vintage Mac community will be out of luck. So to avoid that bad situation, the SMC team put the time, effort and money into creating a solution that would work with a "general use programmer." That's because those programmers will always be available. There is a huge demand for those programmers worldwide. There is comparatively much less demand for dedicated SIMM Programmers. The only caveat is that you need a ROM SIMM with socketed chips, but several ROM SIMM vendors sell those, so it's unlikely you would ever have a situation where that type of ROM SIMM isn't available.

All said, if you own both types of programmers like I do, then you can opt to choose what works best for you.

Crucible is neat because you can largely try out the software even without a programmer. But with Doug Brown's Software, you have to have a programmer switched on before the UI becomes visible.

 

[iantm]

Our pre-made icons are free to use (Do not use in products you sell)
Download the attached zip file and unzip it
@This Does Not Compute introducing Icon changes in his YouTube video(16:46):

Thank you for this video. This is really inspiring! I'm in a similar journey, learning to solder, learning to read schematics, doing all this stuff that is beyond my comfort zone but enjoying it. That you were successful gives me hope!

 

[iantm]

What programmer do you have or are thinking about buying?

Basically you have two choices:

1. ROMmate Programmer v2, which uses this software on a modern Mac or Windoze (proper spelling).
2. T48 individual chip programmer (not a SIMM programmer), with the Crucible software.

I have both programmers, along with ROM SIMMs from pretty much everyone SIMM vendor in existence today. I myself prefer to use the ROMmate v2 exclusively for flashing my ROM SIMMs because: (1) it's super easy to flash the whole SIMM at once, just like the programmer BMOW used to sell, and (2) not all ROM SIMMs let you pull out the chips to individually flash in programmers like the T48. Also, with the T48, it's a very general use programmer and you really need to know what you're doing so you don't screw up. Then you have to put chips in the right order on your ROM SIMM too, and the T48 basically takes several times more brain power to use than the ROMmate. Yes, I know how to use my T48, but it's a tool I tend to use when nothing else works to flash a chip. (For example, when I program and flash my Microchip PIC MCUs, I use Microchip's ProMate 3 programmer at the office.)

The v2 "ROMmate" was largely designed by Joakim Larsson, building upon the past work of Downtown Doug Brown. The software you need to even use the programmer was made by Downtown Doug Brown. Currently, CayMac is the only vendor of those programmers. It's very comparable to the old BMOW edition (which I purchased in the past), but the v2 is twice as fast.

I don't want to discourage anyone from using the T48 with Crucible. A lot of people misread me about that. People are very sensitive and feel if I don't praise a given product as much as I praise a competing solution, I must hate it, which is flat out wrong. I use tools that enhance my productivity. In other words, what I consider the right tool for the job. Speed and ease of use are important to me.

I believe the thinking behind Crucible and the T48 (or earlier model) programmer you need to use with it is that if someone ever stops making the SIMM Programmers, then people will be out of luck. So the SMC team put the time, effort and money into creating a solution that would work with a "general use programmer." That's because those programmers will always be available. There is a huge demand for them worldwide. There is comparatively much less demand for dedicated SIMM Programmers.

But with that said, if you already have both types of programmers like I do, then you can opt to choose what works best for you.

I was able to get a ROMmate from caymac vintage a while back. The notion that I could create a custom ROM for my SE/30 was really interesting. I have yet to dive into that but it’s my own fault; I’m still recapping boards and tinkering to get a fully reliable machine.

sounds like I’ll be able use a variety of flash roms with it so I’ve got some fun time ahead of me!
I love that there are folks out there making this all possible.