Trouble with Sound Driver on LC/LCII

Scott

Tinkerer
Sep 30, 2021
58
29
18
I have some LC and LCII boards that were recapped over a decade ago by someone who no longer does re-caps that share a similar problem.

On the surface, these computers work fine. They run well, they chime upon startup, they do everything you'd expect them to.

The problem is that they have an issue with old sound driver playback. Not sound manager (the snd resource), but the old songs that were common in some games. These are the ones that won't play on a Power Mac.

Specifically, they have issues with Super Solvers Midnight Rescue and Super Solvers OutNumbered, where the sound is very low, seems to be only one channel, and is not audible.

These two games actually are of note because they play a different soundtrack depending on whether the computer is a mono or stereo output. If I load either on, say, my SE/30, you'll get Midnight Rescue playing "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" in stereo beginning on a concert A. It will be more simple on something like an LC, SE, or Plus and will start on a concert D.

Every LC and LC II *should* play the mono version regardless of whether it runs System 6 or System 7. (An LC III always would play the stereo version). It seems these LCs try to play the stereo version and fail miserably.

I'm wondering where the problem here lies, and I have it down to a few possibilities (all of which could be wrong, hence why I want to run it out here):

1. Some capacitor that governs the sound chip was replaced with an improper capacitor. (Back when these boards were re-capped, some people would use different caps to try to optimize the computer long-term, which didn't always work).

2. There's some kind of goop that wasn't cleaned up that landed near where something important for the sound chip is.

3. There's a software issue (although all of my Macs share a common deployment of System 6.0.8 and the other LCs with this work just fine).

4. Something else??
 

VeryVon

New Tinkerer
Jul 2, 2024
7
3
3
What happens if you try the 1/8 audio jack with an external speaker? Same issue? I believe both the LC & LCII have 8-bit mono sound output.
 

Scott

Tinkerer
Sep 30, 2021
58
29
18
I'm going to test a few of these out again this week and will put some wired headphones on them to see what happens.
 

VeryVon

New Tinkerer
Jul 2, 2024
7
3
3
I ran Super Solvers Midnight Rescue on my LCII. Here's what it sounds like.

 

VeryVon

New Tinkerer
Jul 2, 2024
7
3
3
Ok here's the floppy version I believe. Volume is set to 5/7. It sounds a bit quieter than the CD version at the same level.
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20260813_151839118.TS~2.mp4
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Scott

Tinkerer
Sep 30, 2021
58
29
18
OK, what hardware do you have it on? I can tell it's System 7.5 from the menu bar.

I have never tested Midnight Rescue under System 7.5.x, but I know it sounds different under 6.0.x, 7.0.x, and 7.1.x on an LC or LC II.

The audio in your clip is consistent with what I'd expect out of any Mac II, SE/30, LCIII, any LC 500 or 040 based Mac in which Sorcerer's Apprentice starts on a concert A and is quieter.

On a standard LC or LC II or any 68000-based compact (SE, Plus, Classic), it should be louder and start on a concert D. I believe this has something to do with the sound being mono on these models.

If possible, test on an LC/LCII with System 6. All of my lab machines in question run 6.0.7 and none are LCIIIs.
 

VeryVon

New Tinkerer
Jul 2, 2024
7
3
3
Sure, here's what it sounds like on the LCII in System 6.0.8, on internal and external speaker. I can hear what you're talking about now!

For the "internal" version I cranked up the volume to 7.
 

Attachments

  • internal.mp4
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  • external.mp4
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Scott

Tinkerer
Sep 30, 2021
58
29
18
Yes, this is the issue. If you have access to another LC or to a Plus, SE, or Classic, note the difference. This is not what that music is supposed to sound like under System 6. I can verify this because some of my LC/LCII don't have this issue plus I remember long before capacitor goop how these things sounded at my school and at home.
 

VeryVon

New Tinkerer
Jul 2, 2024
7
3
3
Agree. On the SE/30 it sounds good and the same on system 6 & 7.

You said you have some LC/LCII machines where it plays correctly under system 6?
 

Scott

Tinkerer
Sep 30, 2021
58
29
18
Here we go. I'm actually running 7.1 on this LC (this is not one of my lab LCs) but it does the same playback as System 6 would do here. This is what an LC or LCII should sound like (also a Classic, SE, or Plus).

 

Mark_W

Tinkerer
Feb 2, 2026
43
29
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Hi all, just finished repairing a LC II last weekend and decide to chime in. The sound chip is soaked in electrolyte when I first got it, had to desolder it to clean electrolyte underneath.

Anyway here's my testing result on system 7.0.1. Strangely my LC II sounds different than yours, but at least it's loud, volume is at the default 3 (no PRAM battery)

 

Scott

Tinkerer
Sep 30, 2021
58
29
18
Interesting--that's how it typically sounds on a Mac other than an LC, LCII, Classic, SE, or Plus.

The only X factor is system version. Maybe I should get a 7.1 Disk Tools disk out of the closet and try it on one of these LC IIs.
 

Mark_W

Tinkerer
Feb 2, 2026
43
29
18
Ok did a quick testing on system 6.0.8 and the problem appeared, volume is very low even at 7, sounds just like @VeryVon 's on post #8.

So is this a hardware issue or software issue? I assume all sound are generated by the dfac chip right? Could it be a bad chip or some damaged traces due to capacitor leakage? I only have one LC II in my collection right now so i don't have another machine with dfac chip to compare with.
 

Mark_W

Tinkerer
Feb 2, 2026
43
29
18
Ok another idea, can you test the game on an LC II running system 6.0.8? Just looked up DFAC revisions and it appears the sound chip in LC II and III is 344S1033, while in the original LC it's 343S1033. So in theory LC II and III should have the same sound right?
 

Scott

Tinkerer
Sep 30, 2021
58
29
18
That's what I am using in my lab--with a slight catch. I actually run 6.0.7 on them. I know Apple says 6.0.7 shouldn't be used on an LC II, but it seems to run fine since 6.0.8 is basically just 6.0.7 with new printer drivers. I'm not sure if an 030 LC was already built in when 6.0.7 came out since it predates the LC II by about a year and a half, but it is worth noting that 6.0.7 has been in use on my LC IIs for over a decade now in the lab. (Why? I used the System 7 CD to make my master system folder with my preferred fonts, printer drivers, public domain utilities, and desk accessories when I started doing the lab. The System 7 CD has all versions of System 6 from 6.0.2 to 6.0.7 except 6.0.6--which I do have a full master disk of somewhere. Back then I had an external hard drive that I used to load this onto each computer when it was set up. Now I just use BlueSCSI but even now, I copied that master image over to make into a modern image).

OK so here's a question--could some LC II have had the earlier chip? I know this because in the 1994-1995 school year we had an LC II in our classroom and we had Midnight Rescue on it and it sounded identical to the LC I.

I do have four LC IIs in the lab and have two extra boards (one isn't recapped yet) so I could try every single one of them with both 6.0.8 and 7.0.x or 7.1 (whichever floppy I grab first).

Also, a key question: do any of these LC IIs we are testing on have Sound Manager installed? I know that changes the sound the "Simple Beep" makes on an LC (same pitch of concert A but different sound quality altogether). The LCs and LC IIs in the lab run System 6, so they can't use Sound Manager. The LC on my desk...trying to remember if it had Sound Manager installed since it runs 7.1, but I've had that machine for 34 years and got Midnight Rescue for it in 1994. I can report that Midnight Rescue makes the same sounds on it regardless of system version if I look at 6.0.8, 7.0.x, and 7.1. (I have never tried 7.5 on it).