120GB SSDs in G4 Cube

[trag]

I bought several of the Orico 128 and 256 MSATA drives while they were on sale. I tested them last weekend to see if I had any failures before return dates expire.

I was testing on a Windows machine and I'm no expert on disk formatting/initializing preparation, but perhaps someone can make something useful of this tidbit.

On Windows, none of these MSATA drives were initialized at all. Whatever the step is before partitioning, that wasn't done. So they weren't MBR nor GUID in Windows. I had to open disk manager and right click the left-most entry for the MSATA drives and choose "initialize" and then select MBR or GUID before I could get them to do anything, such as move on to partitioning.

I'm not sure how that relates to Mac usage, but perhaps someone else does. I'm used to drives arriving with basic formatting already done, which can be undone if one wishes. These had nothing.

I hope this can help JDW's situation.

 

[JDW]

I've spend pretty much all of my free time in vain over the last week trying to get this mSATA drive to work in my G4 Cube. I've put in more than 12 hours, testing it with my G4 Cube, and also with my PowerBook G3 Wallstreet PDQ 14.1" 266MHz (as both an internal and external drive), as well as test it with a PowerMac 9600 via FW400 card. A lot of that 12 hours was mainly playing the waiting game during formatting and booting attempts, but still. It was an enormous amount of time that yielded very little good news.

It was only this evening that I finally was able to get it to boot when installed internal to my Wallstreet PDQ, but here are two points of interest:

1. It won't boot at all into OS 9.2.1 until unless formatted with FWB HD Toolkit 4.x. (Intech Hard Disk Speed Tools doesn't work.)
   
   
2. Even though the SSD now boots the Wallstreet PDQ with OS 9.2.1 just fine (thanks to FWB), and even though my Wallstreet continues to recognize my internal ZIP drive and also recognize drives attached to it via FW400 Cardbus interface, my 20X CD-ROM (Apple drive installed in the right slot) is not recognized at all. And that's a huge problem because I really need that drive to work. But when I yank out the SSD and put the 80GB spinner drive back inside the Wallstreet, the CD-ROM then starts working again. And yes, I had the Apple CD-ROM extension installed on the SSD, but that doesn't matter. You normally can restart with "C" held down (before any extensions load) to boot from a bootable CD (e.g., OS 9.2.1 installer CD), but that doesn't work when the SSD is installed for some reason. But it does work with the spinner drive installed.

NOTE: When you install any PATA/IDE drive internal to a PowerBook G3 Wallstreet, the connector covers the pins used to set Slave or Master, be that on a spinner drive or my mSATA to PATA adapter. So even if one argues that my CD-ROM stopped working due to a Slave/Master conflict, that's outside my control. Shouldn't be a conflict though, since the connector uses those pins to set the drive to Master or Slave, AFAIK.

Maybe with more hours of fiddling I can finally figure out how to make it bootable in my G4 Cube, but for now, I've only been able to boot my Wallstreet, and that is not satisfactory due to it preventing my CD drive from working.

Suffice it to say, I'm a bit disappointed.

 

[retr01]

Hey @JDW, this is odd and frustrating!

The FWB HD ToolKit (HDT) was a good move for your SSD in the IDE adapter, as it put in the FWB driver for the hard drive. I did the same thing with @Androda's BlueSCSI F4 Lite in my SE/30 and IIci using the 68k version of FWB HDT on a boot disk.

Try using this to bring your CD drive alive using the FWB CD-ROM driver and included FWB CDEVs and INITs instead of the Apple CD-ROM driver.

FWB CD-ROM ToolKit v4.0 (CDT)​

 

[JDW]

Very interesting...

Not sure how "hot load" works on a technical level, but I will give that a try on my Wallstreet when I have some time. I then need to see about how to get it to work on my G4 Cube because I bought the SSD for that, not the Wallstreet.

Even if FWB CD-ROM Toolkit works though, it is worrying though that the SSD solution prevents the CD-ROM from being visible (on my Wallstreet).

 

[retr01]

The instructions you are sharing from FWB is not mentioning IDE. Hmmm.

I need to get my iBook G4 that has a CD-ROM drive and put in the SSD with IDE adapter that I have and see how that works out. And try using the CD-ROM drive on my Mini Mac G4 that already has MacOS 9 and OX Tiger set up.

I have to get both out of storage and work on that along with your project. You see, I do not see a reason why it should not "see the CD-ROM drive" when using SSD with IDE adapter.

 

[JDW]

Try using this to bring your CD drive alive using the FWB CD-ROM driver and included FWB CDEVs and INITs instead of the Apple CD-ROM driver.

FWB CD-ROM ToolKit v4.0 (CDT)​

I tried it, but to no avail. It shows the internal drive, which is the SSD, as ID0. But it doesn't show the 20X Apple CD ROM module at all. And I read the documentation which says those CD modules ARE supported, so it's not a limitation of FWB CD-ROM Toolkit.

Again, I am very disappointed with this mSATA SSD and IDE adapter.

But I shouldn't be surprised. In the past, I purchased a couple SSDs from OWC which claimed to be compatible with LEGACY Macs. In fact, I bought two for each of my two Wallstreet machines. I spent many hours and 3 RMAs, to no avail. I had to pay for return shipping from Japan back in those days too! Less than a year later, OWC discontinued the entire line of those SSDs. Can't imagine I was the lone soul on the planet who tried them, but who knows.

Suffice it to say, my heart will stop in amazement when someone out there puts together a bullet-proof SSD solution for the PowerBook G3 Wallstreet and the G4 Cube. I'm not interested in hearsay anymore. Something in the IDE compatible format from established and proven SSD creators like @eric / BlueSCSI or @YMK / MacSD is all I am willing to trust at this stage. Those devices are bullet proof on vintage Macs with SCSI.

For now, the SSD and adapters I bought are headed to the closet.

 

[retr01]

I am sorry you had to go through all that, @JDW.

I worry that I may end up in the same position as you with my iBook G4.

As for my Mac Mini G4, I remember now that the CD-ROM drive in that Mac works with the SSD. The upgrade was done by someone else before I obtained it, so I would have to look and see precisely what the SSD and the adapter are.

Nevertheless, I wholeheartedly agree with you regarding compatibility issues herein that the BlueSCSI, MacSD, and the like are much easier to work in those vintage Macs via SCSI.

In the vintage Mac community, we Tinkerers should consider better solutions, such as using a similar setup as Blue SCSI or MacSD but for IDE. In another thread here on TD, I read about using Compact Flash in IDE adapters in some vintage Macs. However, they did not say anything about the ability to use the CD-ROM drive.

 

[JDW]

I am sorry you had to go through all that, @JDW.

Every failure is a learning experience. True, I wasted an enormous amount of time in that experience, but at least my having posted about the failure in this thread will save many other people the trouble of repeating the same failure.

All said, what works on a Windows machine or what works for one or two guys somewhere out there on the internet, doesn't necessarily mean it will work for you on your vintage Mac.

 

[François]

I have this SATA SSD + adapter setup in my Cube:

The SSD is a Crucial C300 64Gb and on the unbranded SATA to IDE adapter it says AS330, the lone big chip on the adapter board is a JMD330.

 

[S. Pupp]

The only solid state drive I could get to work in my PowerBook Wallstreet II (PDQ) was a Compact Flash card by way of a PCMCIA card adapter in one of the expansion slots. I ended up putting a 40GB IDE hard drive in each of my PDQ’s, until I can find a better solution.

 

[Yoda]

In my two PDQs and one Wallstreet, I have

Amazon.com

and

Amazon.com

They all seem to work perfectly.

 

[JDW]

They all seem to work perfectly.

We must define what "perfectly" means though. In my Wallstreet PDQ, the SSD setup I've been testing boots fine now. The major caveat is that it no longer recognizes the 20X CD-ROM expansion bay module, which otherwise works fine when a spinning platter 80GB 2.5" HDD is installed. And as I mentioned earlier, despite the fact the 20X CD-ROM expansion bay module is supported by FWB CD-ROM Toolkit 4.0, even with FWB installed and loaded at cold boot, the CD drive is not recognized at all.

So I would define "perfectly" as meaning the SSD not only boots fine, but all peripherals and modules work perfectly as well with when booted from the SSD.

With that said, the main intent of my having purchased the SSD and adapters was to install it in my G4 Cube, but my Cube won't even boot from that SSD setup. Ditto for a PowerMac 9600 (when attached as an external FW400 drive). At least my Wallstreet PDQ will reliably boot from the SSD now, but I'm unwilling to sacrifice the CD-ROM drive to keep using the SSD.

 

[S. Pupp]

In my two PDQs and one Wallstreet, I have

Amazon.com

and

Amazon.com

They all seem to work perfectly.

I tried that specific case with that specific Zheino msata drive back in Feb of this year after reading about success with that combo, and that case with an Adata 64GB msata drive in May of 2018. I was unsuccessful on both occasions. The drives work fine in my TiBooks. I wonder what the differences are between our setups. I have a 266MHz 14” PDQ and a 300MHz 14”PDQ, each with 512MB RAM. I tried Apple drivers only in Feb. I don’t recall if I tried any third party drivers or not in 2018.

 

[JDW]

I have a 266MHz 14” PDQ and a 300MHz 14”PDQ, each with 512MB RAM.

Here are the specs of my PDQ...

• Wallstreet, PowerBook G3 PDQ
• Machine ID: 312
• SN: QT9031GPE6D
• Model: M4753
• Date: Late 1998
• CPU: 266MHz
• Backside Cache: 1MB
• BUS SPEED: 66 MHz
• LCD: 14.1"
• RAM: 320MB
• ROM: $77D.41F6

 

[Yoda]

We must define what "perfectly" means though. In my Wallstreet PDQ, the SSD setup I've been testing boots fine now. The major caveat is that it no longer recognizes the 20X CD-ROM expansion bay module, which otherwise works fine when a spinning platter 80GB 2.5" HDD is installed. And as I mentioned earlier, despite the fact the 20X CD-ROM expansion bay module is supported by FWB CD-ROM Toolkit 4.0, even with FWB installed and loaded at cold boot, the CD drive is not recognized at all.

So I would define "perfectly" as meaning the SSD not only boots fine, but all peripherals and modules work perfectly as well with when booted from the SSD.

With that said, the main intent of my having purchased the SSD and adapters was to install it in my G4 Cube, but my Cube won't even boot from that SSD setup. Ditto for a PowerMac 9600 (when attached as an external FW400 drive). At least my Wallstreet PDQ will reliably boot from the SSD now, but I'm unwilling to sacrifice the CD-ROM drive to keep using the SSD.

I haven't used a CD module in the Wallstreet at all, but both the PDQs read CDs just fine. I rarely use CD (I almost always have floppy modules installed) but they do seem to work when I've needed them. Before I got a BlueSCSI external, I used CDs for almost all the software installs.

I tried the same SSD in a Lombard and it wouldn't recognize the drive, while the IDE-to-SD adapter that works perfectly in the Lombard wouldn't work at all in the Wallstreet and PDQs.

 

[Yoda]

My primary PDQ is
Model M4753
233MHz with 96Mb RAM, 512Kb Backside cache
Mac OS 9.2.2

 

[JDW]

Also, just to let everybody know, the 2.5" IDE to 3.5" IDE adapter that I purchased isn't usable as is due to the power connector being stupidly flipped 180° opposite of a normal 3.5" IDE HDD. What in THE world was the manufacturer of that adapter thinking!! Of course, if you connect it in a big tower computer, you have enough clearance to flip your 4-wire connector in any orientation. But the G4 Cube only allows a normal 3.5" HDD orientation!

While I could modify the PCB, for the life of me, I cannot find a right-angled, PCB mountable 4-power connector that matches the orientation of a regular 3.5" HDD, which is what you see in my photo.

The adapter posted by François is oriented correctly, but that adapter is for SATA to IDE, not 2.5" IDE to 3.5", which is what I need. :-( Another benefit to his adapter though is that there is proper space between the main IDE connector and the 4-pin power connector.

Yet another issue, albeit minor, pertains to the mSATA SSD I purchased, which seems to not have any DRAM cache that I can see on the spec page. I noticed a comment made by SudosFTW under Action Retro's video where he mentions the importance of the cache, not only for general performance but for gaming too.

 

[phunguss]

Here is my suggestion: Try the internal SSD with the original optical drive disconnected. That is what was holding me back. My optical drive was a little sticky to begin with, so I replaced it with a slimline slot-load SATA drive from an old iMac. Another SATA->IDE adapter for the optical drive was used (with a jumper selector, green circle) to get them both on the IDE bus. I 3D printed an adapter bracket to match the existing cube mounts for the slimline drive (how to attach a file?). The optical SATA->IDE adapter is actually not mounted to anything, loose in the case, but held in place by all the cables connected to it. The blue SATA/power is a special 7+6 slimline to 7+15 standard adapter.

My power cord was just barely long enough to twist it 180 degrees and still be connected (photo). Probably because the other end is powering another adapter and not directly connected to the drive.

 

[Scorpio_ny]

Hi everyone!
I am a retro computer collector and tinkerer. I also happen to have a G4 cube (actually 2). I wanted to replace the hard drive in my G4 cube with an SSD and I have been reading that there have been some difficulty and tradeoffs in doing so. I worked on addressing those issue.

Installng the hardware seemed to be hit or miss, so I created a customized SSD bracket for the G4 Cube. I have posted the STL's for those who want to get them printed. Here are the links:

Thingiverse:

Macintosh G4 Cube SSD Drive Bracket by scorpio_ny

I wanted to replace the original hard drive in my classic Macintosh G4 Cube. Looking at the current offerings they had several deficiencies in form or function. So I took a stab at it. I remixed the bracket from:Laptop IDE to Desktop PC Adapter, 2.5 inch 44 Pin HDD Hard Disk Drive or SSD to 40...

www.thingiverse.com

Printables:

Macintosh G4 Cube SSD Drive Bracket by scorpio-ny | Download free STL model | Printables.com

This is a SSD bracket for the Macintosh G4 Cube | Download free 3D printable STL models

www.printables.com

Here are the Amazon links to the items i used:

Laptop SATA to IDE Adapter, Convert 2.5 Inch Serial ATA HDD Hard Disk Drive or SSD to 44 Pin Male PATA Port (Parallel Type)​

Laptop IDE to Desktop PC Adapter, 2.5 inch 44 Pin HDD Hard Disk Drive or SSD to 40 Pin 3.5 inch PATA Port Converter Card​

OWC 120GB Mercury Electra 6G 2.5-inch Serial-ATA 7mm SSD​

I also looked at the hard ware offerings. The full height SSD to IDE adapters really were not suited for the job (I bought one that worked but gave up in trying to use it because it was awkward to use because of its size.) So I opted to use two adapters. One is for laptop SSD to IDE. The sencond, from laptop IDE to desktop IDE. This worked out very well. I could boot into System 9 and the DVD drive was still visible and usable ( I tested it by playing Monsters Inc, DVD).

This is how I prepped the drive. I decided to clone by boot drive over to the SSD. My boot drive did not have System 9 installed. So I searched for a viable way to get it installed first. I stumbled upon this Youtube video that has a link to a pre-configured disk image to use for this scenario.

Here is the Youtube in case some one want to review the process:

Here is the link to preconfigured disk image:

MacOS 9.2 installer for OS X : Apple : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

I recently got an iMac G5 with OS X 10.4 Obviously, I want to load Classic so I can enjoy 68000 based games on the thing. However I have no installer disks...

archive.org

This was my process:
1. I installed Mac OS 9 using the process in the video.
2. I connected the SSD using a USB enclosure And connected it to my G4 Cube. I formatted the drive using the Disk utilities, making sure I select the option of System 9 drivers.
3. I cloned my drive over using CCC ( this took a long time due to the very slow USB transfer time. I let it do it overnigot).
4. When done, powered everything down and swapped drives and boot it up. I was able to boot into Mac OS X and System 9. Both hard drive and DVD drive were listed in the System info. To fully test, I booted into system 9 and played a DVD.

Next project, to replace the DVD with a SuperDrive!

I hope this helps someone!

 

[jasperman]

This is a pic of various hard drives and adapters I've tried with my cube over the past month or so. Here's a writeup I did for another site:

I picked up G4 cube about a month ago with no hard drive. Here’s my saga for getting an SSD to fit in the limited space with the original cable and DVD-ROM. My DVD-ROM came set as SLAVE which is a switch under the little daughter card attached to the drive. It should not matter but I’m running the cube on a modern 24v power supply. It looks like a stock cube - no PowerPC upgrade, etc.)

1. First newbie purchase. ChenYang 3.5 IDE to 2.5 SATA. Various clones of this are for sale on Amazon, ebay and Aliexpress. Oops, the connectors are on the top edge of the adapter so don’t fit with the cables inside the cube. The original 3.5 IDE drive has the connectors at the bottom and the cube cables don’t have enough wiggle room to fit.
2. RAIDON Firewire enclosure for SATA drives. I bought this off eBay to put a Tiger install on an old 500 GB SATA drive. This enclosure does work but splits the 500 GB into two partitions right away. One 250 GB unlocked and one 250 GB that unlocks with the keypad. I haven’t tried the encryption at all. Comes with a USB and FireWire 400 cable but not a 800 cable so would not work with my 2008 Mac Pro via Firewire. I did get the Tiger installer ISO copied to this drive successfully and have used it to install Tiger multiple times.
3. ORICO 128 GB SATA drive. Bought on Amazon. This installed Tiger fine dangling outside the cube because #1 adapter does not fit but booting this drive with Tiger just freezes during the boot up process. Disk Utility on my Mac Pro says the drive is fine.I have not investigated this further. Maybe just a bad drive but Tiger installed fine.
4. GOD why did I buy this Godshark 3.5 to 2.5 inch IDE adapter. The power connector is UPSIDE DOWN. Yes, this information is online and I should have researched it more. But it was $7. I have been tempted to desolder the connector and solder in a wired one in the proper position but have not tried it yet. No visible master/slave switch.
5. What is better than one Godshark adapter? TWO! This is a 2.5 IDE adapter to SATA. It has a master/slave “JP1” spot with nothing soldered on. I did not try adding a jumper
6. SABRENT 2.5 to 3.5 IDE connector. For use with #5
7. 128 GB MSATA card bought off eBay. These seem to work fine
8. Axcico Mini PCIE MSATA SSD to 2.5” SATA adapter. For #7 plus the various adapters
9. 2.5 IDE to MSATA enclosure. Aliexpress purchase. I should be able to use this with #6. Has jumpers for master/slave
10. Skinny SATA to 3.5 IDE adapter. Bought on eBay but available everywhere. This looks promising because it’s not too tall and also has slave/master jumpers

General notes about what I tried and what worked or not:

(1) Wasn’t going to fit in the case so really haven’t investigated this one.

(3) The connector is upside down! WTF! I have not investigated it more.

(5+6+7+8) This works and appears as master but the DVD-ROM does not show up

(6+7+9) This works and master/slave jumper does change the device number in “About This Mac” and “More Info...” and the ATA section. But oops, the DVD-ROM does not work in any mode.

(7+8+10). This adapter ports are just a tiny bit too tall but it actually works and fits in the cube. Master/slave jumper works and DVD-ROM works as long as it is a slave device. Switching the devices master/slave settings cause the cube not to boot at all.

Full disclaimer: There is a lot of conflicting information about what works and what does not with a cube and adding a SSD and keeping the DVD-ROM functional. Some posts say the DVD-ROM is normally in master mode. Mine was in slave and only really works as a slave device so far.



So 7+8+10 are working great in my cube. DVD-ROM (as SLAVE) shows up unlike some of the other configs. No wires were moved/modified internally to fit the parts plus a 3D printed sled I made.

I got a 2nd cube today (dead VRM I believe) and its DVD-ROM is also set as slave not as master fwiw.