A MacSE, MacTCP and RaSCSI

[Bolkonskij]

Been trying to get my MacSE online for some time now using MacTCP 2.1 but can't get it to work. I've read online tutorials, including the official one and asked in other places, but I have been unable to solve the problem. Maybe one of you guys can help me out?

The general setup:
The Mac SE runs System 6.0.8 and MacTCP 2.1. AppleTalk is at 58.0. EtherTalk at 2.5.

The RaSCSI:

• I boot the OS on the SE from the RaSCSI device. The SCSI connection is working fine.
• Previously used the RaSCSI to go online with a Mac IIci. The RaSCSI is configured and known to have worked.
• Tested the ethernet cable with another machine and it works fine.

MacTCP config:
Since there's no DHCP support in MacTCP 2.1, I choose the manual setup. I assigned 192.168.1.101 as an IP adress (unused) for the SE. Subnetmask is 255.255.255.0, router adress is 192.168.1.1 (confirmed). As for DNS server I entered Google's 8.8.8.8.

If using MacTCP Ping to e.g. ping 192.168.1.1 or 8.8.8.8 all I get is 100% lost packets.

Any ideas what else I could try? Anyone with the same experience?
And help greatly appreciated!

 

[skate323k137]

I tried and failed on my SE with a RaSCSI (storage worked, tcp was a crap chute). I got as far as tracking packets and doing TCPdump on it, and I had it 75% sorted, but I never could get the last bit figured out.

The host I was pinging was receiving and responding, but the SE was acting like it had no connection iirc.

 

[Bolkonskij]

Thanks for sharing your experience, skate. Seems to me you were even a step further than me (like I said, i only get 100% lost packets).

I was under the impression "lots of enthusiasts" were using their RaSCSIs to connect their Mac Pluses and Mac SE's to the world. But now I'm wondering - has anyone really done so successfully?

 

[skate323k137]

Muck like yours, on the SE Side, it looked like 100% lost packets. But the weird thing was like I said, the other host on my LAN was getting traffic and shooting replies back... so outbound was working, responses were being sent, but the SE itself reported all lost packets. I have a WiModem232 and use BBS more than anything on the SE so I fell back on that for the time being. It would be cool to see this sorted.

If you open a terminal on any mac or linux machine on your network (heck, the RaSCSI itself works IIRC), and run tcpdump as root (sudo) with appropriate filters, you should be able to get more info to see if your traffic is at least making it as far as mine was.

 

[landogriffin]

For myself, I've only used it with Open Transport. I too have not had success with MacTCP (others have got it to work!).

Check the instructions here: https://github.com/akuker/RASCSI/wiki/Dayna-Port-SCSI-Link and make sure you've got the right version of MacTCP installed, etc.

I'm assuming you've already tried this, but have you verified that the Mac OS is communicating with the RaSCSI correctly? You can do this by running the DaynaPort software diagnostics.

Hopefully this helps!!

 

[retr01]

Wait a minute.

@Bolkonskij, can you please tell us how you set up your LAN and WAN? What switches and routers are you using? The more information, the better I can help you.

 

[retr01]

I tried and failed on my SE with a RaSCSI (storage worked, tcp was a crap chute). I got as far as tracking packets and doing TCPdump on it, and I had it 75% sorted, but I never could get the last bit figured out.

The host I was pinging was receiving and responding, but the SE was acting like it had no connection iirc.

@skate323k137, did the SE even use the LAN IP assigned? Did the SE see the router? I suspect compatibility issues as Apple wasn't very good at TCP/IP back in the 1980s. They didn't see it as a priority in the market back then.

As soon as I get my SE/30 set up and running to network with my IIci and IIGS, I will work on that. I have a good idea of the particular setup.

 

[skate323k137]

I'll have to look through my photos, I think I took pictures at the time, but yeah it used the right IP. I don't remember if I looked for the device in my router management interface but that would be a good next step. Next time I have the time to mess with it I'll better document everything and post it here, so hopefully I can figure out my particular issue.

 

[Bolkonskij]

@skate323k137 - thanks for the suggestion. I'll try tcpdump and see what I can get from that. You don't happen to know anyone who has done this successfully with a Plus/SE and who might let us glimpse on his settings?

@landogriffin - I've tried my luck with the docs you linked to before. Versions as stated in my initial post. Mac OS communicates just fine with the RaSCSI, I'm booting MacOS from a virtual HDD so I assume the SCSI connection is as good as it gets.

Yes, the RaSCSI shows up in my router's overview of connected devices. Like I said, the RaSCSI works perfectly fine with my Mac IIci and OpenTransport. Which leads me to believe it is a MacTCP (& RaSCSI?) issue.

@retr01 - my Macs connect via ethernet cable to a switch which gets "fed" by a tplink WLAN bridge. There's three other Macs connected to it and they all work fine, so my assumption is that the internet connection isn't likely the issue?

 

[retr01]

my Macs connect via ethernet cable to a switch which gets "fed" by a tplink WLAN bridge. There's three other Macs connected to it and they all work fine, so my assumption is that the internet connection isn't likely the issue?

Is the Ethernet switch modern or legacy? What brand and model is the switch?

 

[Bolkonskij]

@retr01 It's a Netgear GS305.

 

[retr01]

@retr01 It's a Netgear GS305.

Wow. That is an excellent and rock-solid Ethernet switch!

The problem is that modern Ethernet switches, especially with a gigabit transmission rate, usually do not play nice with older legacy network adapters that can only transmit data at up to 10 megabits, especially in 68k Macs. While the Ethernet standards have changed somewhat for the TCP/IP stacks and rate of transmissions, the issue has to do with the compatibility of Ethernet standards at the TCP/IP based on different specifications of the different eras.

Here are the steps:

1. Get an older Netgear blue metal-cased Ethernet switch such as FS105 or FS108, where the first letter is the type of switch, the first two numbers are the transmission rate, and the last digit is the number of RJ-45 ports on the switch.

​

2. Put that older switch between your older 68k Macs and the newer gigabit switch. That successful approach has been made by many, as mentioned on various discussion boards.

 

[skate323k137]

I have a newer Nighthawk system with eth ports on the satellites. I can try a switch in-between, I have a decent feeling about that.

 

[retr01]

I have a newer Nighthawk system with eth ports on the satellites. I can try a switch in-between, I have a decent feeling about that.

Okay, great!

 

[Bolkonskij]

@retr01 - thank you very much for your detailed message. I just bought a FS105 for next to nothing and will report back once I received it and placed it "in-between".

 

[retr01]

You are welcome! A pleasure helping out, @Bolkonskij!

I am confident it will work, and my fingers are crossed for success in your case.

 

[Bolkonskij]

My Netgear FS-105 arrived yesterday. I hooked it up in between my old Netgear switch and the RASCSI.

Switched all on (RaSCSI, the two switches) and booting the SE, double-checking the above settings in MacTCP. Then trying to ping and .... again I get 100% lost packets. I went and double checked the cable connections (with so many cables there's always the chance...) but all seems to sit firm.

At this point, I'm clueless. Any more ideas @retr01 ?

 

[retr01]

Any more ideas @retr01 ?

Have you ruled out that the Netgear FS-105 switch is the problem? I.E. testing it on other computers to verify that it is working? When you have verified that it is working, then you know it is not the problem with the switch.

Back in the day, Ethernet 10 Mbps was in half-duplex rather than full-duplex with classic networking. Have you verified that half-duplex is being used? I do not think that your SE's current software setup has the ability to communicate in full-duplex over TCP/IP. You will need to make sure that you can change to half-duplex implicitly on the RaSCSI. If the RaSCSI can communicate in full duplex and translate to half-duplex for the SE, then that would be good.

Some folks have to implicitly set a router or access point to use 10 Mbps half-duplex.

The other thing you are using MacTCP on your SE. What version is it? IIRC, there are incompatibility issues with some MacTCP versions and Open Transport.

Check out this well detailed Classic Mac Networking guide.

 

[Bolkonskij]

Thanks for your efforts to help @retr01, really appreciate it!

I've actually dug out my Mac IIci and put it up next to the SE, to help me narrowing down the problem. I've installed System 6.0.8 on the IIci, the same network extension as on the SE and connected the RaSCSI.

Now, lo and behold, MacTCP configured with the same values as on the SE *does* work here. It gets the IIci online under System 6 (I can ping stuff sucessfully, use IRC and even spent some time in gopherspace)

That is without (!) the Netgear FS105 in between, on a 100M connection. I ran out of time but my next step will be testing it with the FS105 in between and see if this setup will work before moving things over to the SE again, trying your suggestion, checking for half-duplex.

As for versions, I only use MacTCP 2.1 on both machines, as suggested by the official RaSCSI guide (linked above). To the best of my knowledge, that's the latest version incorporating the (unofficial) patch.

What I haven't found a definite answer for yet - is it confirmed that someone got a Plus / SE online with the MacTCP and RaSCSI combo?

Just irritated at this point that the IIci got online right away while the SE not.

 

[Bolkonskij]

Update.

Had the chance to tinker some more with it yesterday evening.

As you suggested @retr01 I hooked up the Netgear FS-105 in between the RaSCSI and my Netgear GS305. Connected the RaSCSI to the IIci. Booting System 6.0.8 and using MacTCP for connection. Bam. I'm online.

So, the new-old FS105 switch and the cables work fine. We can rule that out as the cause.

Moved the RaSCSI over to the SE. Booting System 6 from the RaSCSI image, trying to connect with the FS105 in place - 100% lost packages. Dang.

The only difference in the setup between IIci and SE are the two machines. Both utilize the same in software: System 6.0.8 and MacTCP 2.1. AppleTalk is at 58.0. EtherTalk at 2.5.

So your guess about having to use half-duplex remains the last straw. I wonder if @landogriffin can help out whether or not RaSCSI can run in half-duplex mode and how that is accomplished?