Building the High response Joystick for Apple II

[eric]

『High response Joystick for Apple II project #2』

High response Joystick for Apple II project #2 *Addendum April 19, 2021: It tur…

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I've had all the parts for building @Kay K.M.Mods high response joystick on my shelf for a while so I figured it was time to build one! Building it was a breeze with Kays drawings, thanks!

I could have used a lot shorter wire but wasnt sure exactly how it would be laied out so better safe than sorry.

After I got every wired together I noticed I mixed up the brown and gray, easy fix.

Quick smoke test before I start making the case, tuned in and working great!

Next up get everything shoved in thr case and the holes cut. Noticed these buttons have to go in from the top so need to desolder and reconnect.

 

[eric]

Learned a lot along the way...

the joystick fit is very tight, my first drill holes in another case were not far enough over. I marked the other end of the joystick with a bunch of ink and touched it inside the cover to the right position and used that as my center drill hole

The buttons are fed from the top... not the bottom.

The cable needs to be inserted first before hooking everything up...

Probably should have used clips instead of soldering wires on.

A small PCB would be nice to centralize everything

There are 2 ways the cover can go on, not all 4 - so the cable comes out the side (not a big deal)

I do have enough parts to build one more, and will with all the lessons learned. Next up to have my wife print out the decals on her craft/cutting machine.

 

[JDW]

@eric
What Apple II games have you found the joystick to work well for, and what games does it not work well with. I ask because Kay mentions a little of that on his blog.

Which perhaps raises the question...

Were the Apple branded joysticks made to work well with all the old games, or did they do work better with some games than others.

I ask all these questions because I am mulling joystick options for my Apple IIe card, especially for my video on that topic. Kay told me many games just won't work without a joystick.

 

[eric]

Any game such as pacman, digdug, etc that need immediate left/right/up/down work great. As mentioned in Kay's article flight sims where you have to pull back on the stick it would be ether nothing or pulling back all the way - so that would make flying quite difficult. Prince of Pursia is playable, but it's a bit tricky to do the slow stepping.

 

[skate323k137]

Awesome stuff.

I have both analog and digital options on my Apple II's, which I'll talk to a tiny bit if you don't mind.

Like you said, stuff like pacman etc. is very playable with a digital control. I have an adapter which lets me use the SNES pad (*NOT* the SNES MAX card, which I do also have) which is nice for that.

Original joysticks for the apple II like the CH Mach series are stupid expensive. But having an analog joystick is awesome and a must for a lot of games. I have found that you can get an identical CH joystick for PC instead of Apple, and use an IBM to Apple II joystick adapter, for a cheaper price. And without looking at the back of the system to see the adapter, you would be hard pressed to know it's a PC version.

 

[retr01]

Back in the day, on my Apple //e, I had this particular Apple joystick. It worked well for LR and PoP (Lode Runner and Prince of Persia), which were, and still are, among my favorite games. I managed to master slow stepping with the joystick in PoP.

 

[retr01]

@JDW, this specific Apple joystick will be a good match for your Mystic CC to enjoy your Apple II adventures, whether it be grabbing the gold crates running away from the robot guards (LR), or battling your way through the castle to rescue the princess (PoP).

 

[JDW]

I was talking to Kay Koba last night about possibly doing the build of his joystick design. Eric did that. Apparently, it works well for games like PacMan in that up/down and left/right movement is all or nothing, which is all you need. But for flight simulators, you need graduated movement, which I assume that only the official Apple or Mach II or III or similar joysticks offer. Since I've never used an Apple II joystick before EVER, it probably would be a good idea for me to not just build Kay's but also buy either the Apple one or the Mach III (which is considered even better than the Apple version). That way I have a frame of reference to tell people how good each are and in what situations each would work best.

 

[retr01]

And other things plug in the joystick port, such as the Bluetooth joystick adapter called A2io, to be able to use iPhone or iPad as a touch joystick. The accelerometer will add other controls.

 

[skate323k137]

Bluetooth joystick adapter called A2io.

I've been on the waiting list for that one for a while, can't seem to find one anywhere.

 

[retr01]

I've been on the waiting list for that one for a while, can't seem to find one anywhere.

Yeah. I think the guy making it, Andy Reid, is struggling because of IC shortages.

 

[JDW]

And other things plug in the joystick port, such as the Bluetooth joystick adapter called A2io, to be able to use iPhone or iPad as a touch joystick. The accelerometer will add other controls.

Very interesting...

A2io – Apple II Bluetooth game port receiver

A neat concept, but I think a genuine Mach III or similar joystick would provide the best overall experience -- at least for old school Gen-X guy like me! Something about controlling vintage games with a finger on glass just doesn't sound all that appealing!

 

[retr01]

Very interesting...

A2io – Apple II Bluetooth game port receiver

A neat concept, but I think a genuine Mach III or similar joystick would provide the best overall experience -- at least for old school Gen-X guy like me! Something about controlling vintage games with a finger on glass just doesn't sound all that appealing!

True. Yet, if you want to play a game like Marble Madness (IIgs only, I think), then the accelerometer is lovely to balance the board to get the marble to go on the right path towards the exit to the next level.

 

[retr01]

@JDW, see this YouTube video by Chris Torrence talking about the A2io by Andy Reid. At 6:14 in this video, the marble madness is demonstrated with a gamepad and then iPhone using A2io.

 

[Kay K.M.Mods]

Congratulations @eric . JDW told me you finished this.

But I found an embarrassing spelling mistake in my schematic
I'm thinking of making this easier now. Excellent STL file and BOM list. I need some time.

Also, Apple's stock joystick has an interesting structure, it goes from 0 to 255, but it's a variable resistor, so it can change linearly. This passes through a capacitor on the logic board and sees it as a voltage.
My Joystick is a switch type that jumps from 0 to 255 at once. This is very easy to play because the response is considerably improved when changing the direction by 180 degrees in Donkey Kong, DigDug, etc.
I love arcade games, so I don't like linear joysticks. This is why I created this joystick.

 

[JDW]

@Kay K.M.Mods
I see you use the stick with your left hand and buttons with your right:

I'm right handed and tend to prefer the stick in the right hand with buttons on the left, and I think that's the benefit of your custom build because you could put the buttons on either side.

I have not begun sourcing parts or building anything yet, but based on what I see in your instructions here, it would seem the hardest part is just drilling out the big holes if you don't already have a large drill bit and drill press machine.

 

[Kay K.M.Mods]

If you've ever played an arcade game, you'll notice that firing with your right hand actually makes more sense and has a higher success rate. It was from Space Invaders that people realized that.
The Apple joystick has a left-hand button due to its older design, which is unsuitable for long hours of play.
This is similar to playing the guitar. A right-handed guitar is fingered with the left hand, but picked with the right hand.

Now all console controllers such as Nintendo and PlayStation use this right-hand button way...

@Kay K.M.Mods
I see you use the stick with your left hand and buttons with your right:

I'm right handed and tend to prefer the stick in the right hand with buttons on the left, and I think that's the benefit of your custom build because you could put the buttons on either side.

I have not begun sourcing parts or building anything yet, but based on what I see in your instructions here, it would seem the hardest part is just drilling out the big holes if you don't already have a large drill bit and drill press machine.

 

[JDW]

@Kay K.M.Mods
Perhaps I am either more adept with my Left hand than most people, or maybe it could be said that I am "quasi-ambidextrous".

Back when I lived in the US, decades ago, I used to fire a rifle on my left side, with my left finger as the trigger finger, aiming with my left eye in the rifle scope. I could never make good use of a rifle on my right side with my right trigger finger. It just gives me a horrible feeling to do that. And yet, when I shoot a pistol, I use my right hand exclusively.

The same unexplainable craziness applies to joysticks too. I am often best with my right hand on the stick and left hand on the buttons.

Amazing how the brain works! Clearly, I'm not truly ambidextrous, because that English word means "using both right and left in the same great way." That is why I said "quasi" because I am sometimes better with my left than right, and visa versa. It completely depends on the situation.

So if I were to build a joystick for myself and myself alone, I would put the buttons on the left, and stick on the right.

 

[Kay K.M.Mods]

@Kay K.M.Mods
Perhaps I am either more adept with my Left hand than most people, or maybe it could be said that I am "quasi-ambidextrous".

Back when I lived in the US, decades ago, I used to fire a rifle on my left side, with my left finger as the trigger finger, aiming with my left eye in the rifle scope. I could never make good use of a rifle on my right side with my right trigger finger. It just gives me a horrible feeling to do that. And yet, when I shoot a pistol, I use my right hand exclusively.

The same unexplainable craziness applies to joysticks too. I am often best with my right hand on the stick and left hand on the buttons.

Amazing how the brain works! Clearly, I'm not truly ambidextrous, because that English word means "using both right and left in the same great way." That is why I said "quasi" because I am sometimes better with my left than right, and visa versa. It completely depends on the situation.

So if I were to build a joystick for myself and myself alone, I would put the buttons on the left, and stick on the right.

I think it comes with the fact that you're from Mars
You can arrange the buttons as you like, so I think you should make it with your favorite arrangement. I hope I can help you finish making it BTW…

 

[JDW]

@Kay K.M.Mods
The problem with being from Mars is, I frustrate many Earthlings who think I'm like them. When Steve Jobs wrote The Crazy Ones, he was thinking of me. I really do Think Different.

With that said, it could be training that made me like I am. You see, I grew up using the Mac. Some old Mac games want you to use the Mouse and Keyboard. The mouse is ALWAYS on my right, and the keyboard is on my left. I move the mouse around like I would a joystick, and I type on the keyboard like I would press joystick buttons.