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HP-UX Unix Workstation Hardware
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HP-UX Workstation Hardware Specs
- Thread starter Kai Robinson
- Start date
Not a HP-UX workstation but a relative. I am restoring a HP9000/300 and am on the look out for a HP-HIL keyboard to go with. Preferably in Australia, but might consider from elsewhere if the shipping is not prohibitive.
I salvaged two Apollo 300 workstations from the university the other day, one I gave to a friend, but both lack the keyboard too. I'm thinking about making a converter based on something like this maybe…
(we should probably split this topic out)
Hi all,
Maybe there’s someone who can help…
Some time ago I managed to score what was looking like a nice “prospect”, an HP 712 workstation. I’ve never been into HP stuff, but it reminded me the good old days when I was a student and HP hardware ruled in every respectable high end laboratory.
It will be a nice integration of your “collection” - I thought to myself - and, if you close your eyes, it will give you the thrill of being back in your twenties.... (Sure, dream on…).
And you can install NEXTStep, too.
So, why not? A tad on the expensive side, but doable…
For a start, the machine top cover got damaged during transportation. Luckily (?), I managed to score a spare, of course for eye watering amount of money… But you know, we only live once…
And it was just the beginning: I wasn’t aware I was just about to enter in the darkest realm of über proprietary hardware.
ROM locked.
Machine came equipped with bare minimum memory (32 Mb), no extra VRAM, but it had a bullet proof HD (HP UX 9 on it) and a useless floppy, too.
No installation disks whatsoever.
I managed to source the VRAM for acceptable money thanks to a great reseller, but the RAM is almost impossible to find. At least at reasonable prices. Amen, 32 Mb will fit the bill.
As I started attaching some SCSI stuff, though, I realized that the HP Surestore DDS was recognized, but the couple of CD ROM units I tried were not. Quick search: of course, it requires HP stuff. What else?
Stroke of luck (?), there was one available for “acceptable” money, so I pushed the “buy now” button and got it home (overall amount of money now: off the roof).
But when I powered it up, surprise, the unit (A2655A) is not working. Steady orange LED, which means: hardware problem. Not even the tray works. Actual unit is a Toshiba 5701b, which at first glance looks to be in pristine conditions.
Does anyone have some experience with this stuff?
Generally speaking, any reference to HP UX / HP 712 specific source of valuable resources will be highly appreciated.
Thanks!
Maybe there’s someone who can help…
Some time ago I managed to score what was looking like a nice “prospect”, an HP 712 workstation. I’ve never been into HP stuff, but it reminded me the good old days when I was a student and HP hardware ruled in every respectable high end laboratory.
It will be a nice integration of your “collection” - I thought to myself - and, if you close your eyes, it will give you the thrill of being back in your twenties.... (Sure, dream on…).
And you can install NEXTStep, too.
So, why not? A tad on the expensive side, but doable…
For a start, the machine top cover got damaged during transportation. Luckily (?), I managed to score a spare, of course for eye watering amount of money… But you know, we only live once…
And it was just the beginning: I wasn’t aware I was just about to enter in the darkest realm of über proprietary hardware.
ROM locked.
Machine came equipped with bare minimum memory (32 Mb), no extra VRAM, but it had a bullet proof HD (HP UX 9 on it) and a useless floppy, too.
No installation disks whatsoever.
I managed to source the VRAM for acceptable money thanks to a great reseller, but the RAM is almost impossible to find. At least at reasonable prices. Amen, 32 Mb will fit the bill.
As I started attaching some SCSI stuff, though, I realized that the HP Surestore DDS was recognized, but the couple of CD ROM units I tried were not. Quick search: of course, it requires HP stuff. What else?
Stroke of luck (?), there was one available for “acceptable” money, so I pushed the “buy now” button and got it home (overall amount of money now: off the roof).
But when I powered it up, surprise, the unit (A2655A) is not working. Steady orange LED, which means: hardware problem. Not even the tray works. Actual unit is a Toshiba 5701b, which at first glance looks to be in pristine conditions.
Does anyone have some experience with this stuff?
Generally speaking, any reference to HP UX / HP 712 specific source of valuable resources will be highly appreciated.
Thanks!
So, the CD ROM seems to be damaged at some point in the logic board. The voltage out of the driver IC that should be driving all the motors (tray, spindle and pick up) is too low (around 2 volts). I have the feeling that some IC upstream the driver is busted, but it’s hard for me to tell which one.
Anyhow, I noticed that the 12 V voltage line from the power supply is much higher, more than 16 V. Measured unloaded. However, other power supplies I have deliver 12 V unloaded. So, I suspect such an high voltage might have damaged something… I’d appreciate your opinion on whether the power supply is still OK at 16 V or not. Thanks!
Anyhow, I noticed that the 12 V voltage line from the power supply is much higher, more than 16 V. Measured unloaded. However, other power supplies I have deliver 12 V unloaded. So, I suspect such an high voltage might have damaged something… I’d appreciate your opinion on whether the power supply is still OK at 16 V or not. Thanks!
My first job out of college was on a K250, so I have a real affection for PA-RISC. My favourite is my SAIC Galaxy 1100, which is a Gecko 712/80 in a portable MIL-SPEC shell. It runs NeXTSTEP. I also have a PrecisionBook that runs HP/UX 10.20, a C8000 which I'd like to set up again if I can find space (it has two 1.1GHz PA-8900s, runs HP/UX 11i), and a 425t that was secondarily upgraded (no hard disk). I always recommend openpa.net to anyone interested in the hardware. Paul's collected a lot of neat info.
In answer to your question, I don't know the specifics of the power supply, but in general older switching power supplies may not be able to reduce their duty cycle far enough to generate a "proper regulated voltage" when there's no or minimal load. More modern supplies can. I can't advise you for certain that it's working correctly, but it's possible that it is.
In answer to your question, I don't know the specifics of the power supply, but in general older switching power supplies may not be able to reduce their duty cycle far enough to generate a "proper regulated voltage" when there's no or minimal load. More modern supplies can. I can't advise you for certain that it's working correctly, but it's possible that it is.
@Paolo B Beware that HP loved its HVD (high-voltage differential) SCSI back in the day, which NOT compatible electrically with SE (single-ended) and later LVD (low-voltage differential) SCSI. Do not plug a SE device (the most common pre-Ultra) on a HVD adapter!
I got recently a nice C200 I need to put an OS on. I have a 715/33 (I think) also archived somewhere. They're all super-heavy and built like industrial system, which is reliable but not very convenient. Another issue is the atrocious lack of public documentation - like for many workstation vendors of that era. They wanted to keep all the hardware sale, and industrial customer swould buy a configuration, put some ISV software on it for CAD or whatever, and then move on to the next generation. My C200 has "GSC" connector in line with PCI (I guess that's what they are from the user manual), but the most information I found is this paragraph on openpa.net... That's why I prefer Sun workstations to this day; the architecture was open so anyone could build e.g. SBus expansion, plus all the cloners. That's why I could build the SBusFPGA - it's easy to find Sun's original specifications, the IEEE standard, and second-hand copies of the book targeted at designers - and that's just the hardware, there's also plenty of documentation & tools for the OpenBoot PROM & Forth. In a different market, Apple's NuBus is also still well-documented. HP stuff, not so much :-(
Edit: it seems the Linux PA-RISC people do have some stuff archived now.
I got recently a nice C200 I need to put an OS on. I have a 715/33 (I think) also archived somewhere. They're all super-heavy and built like industrial system, which is reliable but not very convenient. Another issue is the atrocious lack of public documentation - like for many workstation vendors of that era. They wanted to keep all the hardware sale, and industrial customer swould buy a configuration, put some ISV software on it for CAD or whatever, and then move on to the next generation. My C200 has "GSC" connector in line with PCI (I guess that's what they are from the user manual), but the most information I found is this paragraph on openpa.net... That's why I prefer Sun workstations to this day; the architecture was open so anyone could build e.g. SBus expansion, plus all the cloners. That's why I could build the SBusFPGA - it's easy to find Sun's original specifications, the IEEE standard, and second-hand copies of the book targeted at designers - and that's just the hardware, there's also plenty of documentation & tools for the OpenBoot PROM & Forth. In a different market, Apple's NuBus is also still well-documented. HP stuff, not so much :-(
Edit: it seems the Linux PA-RISC people do have some stuff archived now.
Thanks a lot for the feedback, I really appreciate. I am new to PA-RISC, I have some vague memories about HP-UX from the times when I was using HP workstation in combination with some LMS Scadas front end at university. Back at time, at my alma mater we had really a fancy mix of machines depending on the context. I remember Labs with plenty of HP stuff, some other with Sun Sparcstations, obviously many 68k Macs and PCs and - hell yeah! - a Cray supercomputer.
Anyhow, back to the CD ROM: I spent some time trying to backtrace a faulty IC or stuff, but without success. Visually, there’s absolutely no trace of any damage. All “big“ capacitors are radial, mounted with a healthy gap from the board and in perfect order. I replaced them as I have right spares at hand, but fundamentally no need.
In the meantime I managed to source another Toshiba MX5701b, which apparently was a popular choice for high end stuff, adopted by HP, Sun, SGI, Akai and so on.
This other unit should be in perfect order (at least according to the seller), pulled from some Akai instrument. Maybe I will try to compare the voltages at the test points and see if I can make some progress with the faulty unit. In case, I will post here some updates.
Anyhow, back to the CD ROM: I spent some time trying to backtrace a faulty IC or stuff, but without success. Visually, there’s absolutely no trace of any damage. All “big“ capacitors are radial, mounted with a healthy gap from the board and in perfect order. I replaced them as I have right spares at hand, but fundamentally no need.
In the meantime I managed to source another Toshiba MX5701b, which apparently was a popular choice for high end stuff, adopted by HP, Sun, SGI, Akai and so on.
This other unit should be in perfect order (at least according to the seller), pulled from some Akai instrument. Maybe I will try to compare the voltages at the test points and see if I can make some progress with the faulty unit. In case, I will post here some updates.
Thanks a lot for your lines.
I checked again and both the 712 and the external CD ROM unit are labeled as SE compatible.
I must say I like seeing machines built like tanks (at least the internals, the plastic top lid almost crumbled in my hands after being initially damaged during transportation…). The steel frame metal sheet is 1.3 mm thick, ridiculously redundant.
I am also not hiding a kind of perverse fascination for closed and proprietary hardware, but surely it’s frustrating to get to know that even the RAM modules had to be HP ones, specifically certified for the 712 series.
Before scoring the HP 712 I was considering a Sun, preferably a Sparcstation 20. However, for some reasons unbeknownst to me, it seems as though that kind of hardware was not so common in Japan, where I’m currently based. So, they are almost impossible to find and when they pop up they are ridiculously priced...
US hardware from before the 90s is less common outside of the US in my experience (I'm in France), probably because there was more competition from locally developed hardware. One need was better support for local language, in particular in country that don't use the Latin alphabet such as Japan.
By the 90s, PC compatible (and to a lesser extent Macintoshes) were becoming ubiquitous everywhere, and displacing everything else including workstations.
The reverse is also true; MSX systems are probably more available in Japan than in the US, or Amstrad CPCs in Europe.
The SS20 is probably my favorite design of all time. Pizzabox, not too big or heavy, super expandable through generations of CPU and I/O devices. Plastic quality isn't great though.
For instance, the C200 probably weigh as much as 2-3 SS20; is much larger; can't update it's single CPU; only has up to 4 expansion boards like the 20 (and need one for video where the SS20 can use its onboard SX); the only advantages are, it can take 3 HD internally instead of only 2 (in addition to CDROM and floppy for both) and being a later design it takes more standard SIMMs & standard PS/2 peripherals.
BTW - you didn't mention kbd/mouse, you did get the required HIL stuff with the 712? Otherwise that's another issue of that era, although someone claims to have design an adapter from USB to HIL. Edit: @rcrook9190 , @mmu_man might be interested in the link.
@Melkhior
I also believe local offer might have seen more acceptance than foreign hardware. Even though US commercial interests have always been very strong, for sure Japan did not lack local high end manufactures.
Talking about Sun, I know for sure that some Sparcstation models were sold by Toshiba with the brand Toshiba.
Conversely, as you guessed, other standard which were (are) hugely popular in Japan never made it outside the Country. Not just MSX, but also Sharp 68000 and FM Towns.
As for the mouse and keyboard, luckily the 712 is PS/2 compatible. I don‘t have the original items sold with the machine, but some other HP stuff from the same period, which works fine and fits nicely.
I also believe local offer might have seen more acceptance than foreign hardware. Even though US commercial interests have always been very strong, for sure Japan did not lack local high end manufactures.
Talking about Sun, I know for sure that some Sparcstation models were sold by Toshiba with the brand Toshiba.
Conversely, as you guessed, other standard which were (are) hugely popular in Japan never made it outside the Country. Not just MSX, but also Sharp 68000 and FM Towns.
As for the mouse and keyboard, luckily the 712 is PS/2 compatible. I don‘t have the original items sold with the machine, but some other HP stuff from the same period, which works fine and fits nicely.
On the Toshiba MX5701B CD ROM drive unit.
Eventually, I found out that the drive is actually in perfectly working condition.
Reasons for apparent mulfunctioning (tray (b)locked and yellow light steady on):
1) there’s switch in the back that is purposely designed for disabiling the front panel tray button, I assume for preventing unauthorized people from removing the media
2) even harder to guess: just powering up the unit without active control from a SCSI controller is not sufficient for operating the tray, which remains locked.
Once the switch was set in the right position and the unit connected to a live controller, the drive worked just fine.
For the record, on a Mac 68k (SE/30), it’s necessary to have a 3rd party extension for the Mac to operate the unit.
Eventually, I found out that the drive is actually in perfectly working condition.
Reasons for apparent mulfunctioning (tray (b)locked and yellow light steady on):
1) there’s switch in the back that is purposely designed for disabiling the front panel tray button, I assume for preventing unauthorized people from removing the media
2) even harder to guess: just powering up the unit without active control from a SCSI controller is not sufficient for operating the tray, which remains locked.
Once the switch was set in the right position and the unit connected to a live controller, the drive worked just fine.
For the record, on a Mac 68k (SE/30), it’s necessary to have a 3rd party extension for the Mac to operate the unit.
Hello,
there‘s this HP monster up for sale (“as is”), I couldn’t find much info by googling around.
Curious to see that there’s no serial number (washed out by time? Proto?).
I’m afraid it may require huge extra investment for having it up and running again, I doubt it takes a plain VGA display and PS/2 keyboard / mouse.
Any hint?
there‘s this HP monster up for sale (“as is”), I couldn’t find much info by googling around.
Curious to see that there’s no serial number (washed out by time? Proto?).
I’m afraid it may require huge extra investment for having it up and running again, I doubt it takes a plain VGA display and PS/2 keyboard / mouse.
Any hint?
Attachments
Solved: it’s a 9000 750
https://www.openpa.net/systems/hp-9000_720_730_750.html
Interesting beast, but it takes a lot of extra commitment…
https://www.openpa.net/systems/hp-9000_720_730_750.html
Interesting beast, but it takes a lot of extra commitment…
Eventually, I gave up on this one: too bulky and requiring too many additions.
Btw, it went for less than 30 USD.
Btw, it went for less than 30 USD.