Installing SSD in first gen. G5 (dual 2.0 GHz) - not booting

[fehervaria]

I have a wired problem with my new toy, a PowerMac G5 dual 2.0 GHz from December, 2003. The machine arrived in an acceptable condition, sadly during the transport get damaged, the top rear handling have got a punch and released from the top line of the housing.

It is "just" optical damage and I though it will not disturb the functionality.. but maybe yes, it has effect on it...
I have opened and removed everything and cleaned everything from dust:

• all fans
• PSU
• backside of the logic board(did NOT removed the grill and did NOT repasted the chips under)
• all cables
• washed the housing in the shower (it was very dirty)
• washed the cooling grills of the CPUs
• cleaned and lubricated the opening mechanism (it was very hard to open the lock)

After the cleaning, I repasted the CPUs and built back them together with the cooling grills. I also took a part and cleaned the graphics card: ATI Radeon X800 XT with 256MB VRAM.

Now, I have a cleaned machine but I have few problems:

• not all memory slots working: the machine arrived with 5 GB RAM: 2 x 1GB and 6 x 512MB. It was working when arrived but not working after the cleaning-rebuilding. (the memory slots J11..J14 are working, the J41..J44 are not - independent which modules I try, all modules working in the J11..J14 and none of them working in the J41..J44 slots) In the attached picture ALL memory slots are populated.
  
• sometime the graphics get crazy and displays "colorfull patches" and "digital disturtions" on the screen and then no display anymore: the screen LED blinks - "no signal"
• the most non-understandable problem: I would like to instal Sorbet Leopard on an SSD but the machine does not recognise the SSD at boot time. I am able to partition, format and copy (with CC or DiskUtility) the Sorbet Leopard's files, and able to see and select the SSD in the StartupDisk application, but at reboot the machine stays at the gray screen and "waits" forever.

When I press the Option key at start, then nothing is visible at the disk selector (multiboot) screen: not the old hard disk, not the new SSD nor the DVD drive with an original Leopard install DVD. If I disconnect the SSD, then it still not boots, but I can press the Option key, and the disk selection will list the old hard disk and the Leopard DVD. If I press the Ctrl+Z (switch to Open Firmware) at the multiboot screen when the SSD attached, then the open firmware lists the SSD as well the old hard disk chained on the SATA bus.​

Do you guys have any idea about these problems?
The only one stuff I did not do: I did not removed the cooling grills at the backside of the logic board. Do you think I should do it? It is a big work, need to disassemble the whole machine again.
Do you think that physical damage destroyed something around the RAM / SATA controllers area?
Any idea what could cause the graphic card mysterious behaviour? (I tried with DVI and ADC monitors, the problem stays but sometimes gone and everything looks good).

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Is your G5 the A1047 PCIX model?

With the SATA SSD, maybe a compatibility issue or perhaps the SSD is bad? Sounds like the port works ok with a spinner on the end but when you stick the SSD on, it gets grumpy. I'd test the SSD in another box and see if it boots fine into the restored image of Sorbet. If so, you know the SSD is fine and the powermacg5 does not like the SSD (not common but it does happen). You could always partition your spinner and run Sobet off that until you source a SSD. In the scenario where the sata port is at fault, you can flash a PCI card and boot from that or if you dont mind paying for it, you can pick up a sonnet SATA card.

The GPU artifacts sound like over heating/failure to me. Most every gpu that went south on me anyhow exhibited that type of artifacting behavior. I'd swap the card with a good one and see if the problem persists. If not, you know the issue is with the card and take steps to clean/repaste the gpu or repair if possible. If the issues do continue with another known good card, take a look at the port and give it a spray of compressed air in the off chance there is debris in the AGP port when it was washed/handled

In relation to the ram slots, first things Id do is inspect the ram slots and hit them with canned air in the instance they have debris in them. It sounds like you are installing them correctly in matched pairs from the inside middle out, so Id not suspect that. It is well documented (IMHO) that the solder used in these systems to hold the ram slots in place has gotten fragile over time. The slots can become loose, so when swapping modules in and out, they lose connectivity (get loose like a cold solder joint) and stop working. This hasn't happened to my Powermac g5s but the test I've read about folks using is with the ram slots populated, hit the non-functioning ports with a blow dryer for a few minutes to warm them up, expanding the metal componentry so they make contact and then turn the powermac on and see if the sockets read ram in sys profiler. If they do, the slots are likely not bad but loose. I have not done it myself, but I was chatting with a friend of mine who successfully repaired his non functioning powermac g5 by insulating/deflecting the surrounding pcb area with heavy duty foil, cardboard and ducting foil tape exposing just the ram slot connections and hitting the board from underneath with a heat gun to reflow the solder joints. Seems mildly risky to me with all of the tiny componentry populating the pcb area but it did work per my convo and with a non functioning pmg5, he had zero to lose I suppose, so with that in mind & if you are careful, it seems to be a good fix and has worked long term for him (years).

Then again, you could leave it alone and just max the functioning remaining slots and roll with that. I am responding to this on my own PCI a1047 dual cpu 2ghz powermac g5 which this particular model was neutered with half of the slots of a PCIX thus maxes at 4 gigbaytes but is still a stout little box despite the meager resources comparatively.

After sorting out the issues you are experiencing now, I do recommend that if you have the time, that you repaste the northbridge on the back of the logicboard. These get very hot - so much so, that Apple designed a big heatsink combined with an active air channel through the back of the box just for the it. It is part of the normal maintenance cycle of these elderly boxes and should be done as it is unlikely that it has been done up to this point.

Now, if this box does end up being dead/not worth your time and you are looking for a Powermacg5, the A1117 aircooled dualcore 2.0ghz is a gem. Between the 970MP and the 16gb max ram - throw in a SSD and these boxes are fantastic and without the needed maintenance of a LCS. Best of luck to you

 

[fehervaria]

Yes, it is an A1047 with PCI-X

Thank you so much for these lots of information!
These are my temperature values:

I will try all of it - as well the RAM slots reflowing. If I have to take a part and clean and repaste the U3 Memory Controller, I will have a look under microscope the memory slots. Interestingly, the first 2-2 slots from the inner to the outer direction are working and the outer 2-2 not. If it were those slots (those 2-2 outer slots have connection problem but the inner 2-2 working) then it would be a strange failure. I would expect an area of RAM slots like - all top or the very bottom 2 ... I will check it...

About the SSD, it works in another machine, so I pulled out the SanDisk 128 GB from that machine, and it works in the G5 with the mentioned Sonnet SATA controller (I had 2 in my drawer). The SATA controller on the logic board is not compatible with my SSDs...

I think, for the GPU problem I will give a try again and redo the thermo-paste, but I will look for the original ATI Radeon 9600 Pro with passive cooling - this ATI Radeon X800 XT with the fan cooler is very loud.
Thanks again for your tips!

 

[fehervaria]

@Certificate of Excellence
I finally did multiple tries and I can report, the SSD size OVER 128 GB is "not really supported" with the vintage PowerMac...
What does it mean "not really supported"?
It is up to your SSD's manufacturer, your SATA controller and your Mac's Logic Board and of course the Mac OS X what is "going to be installed".
I tried with the latest version of Sorbet Leopard R15 and the following result I experienced:

	SSD 128 (SanDisk)	SSD 256 (Netac)
Mac Mini M1 (late 2020) connected over USB3-SATA adapter cable	Working	Working
Mac Mini Intel (late 2012) connected over USB3-SATA adapter cable	Working	Working
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0 GHz direct connected to the LogicBoard SATA controller	Not working	Not Working
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0 GHz connected to Sonnet SATA Controller	Working	Not Working (!)
PowerMac G4 MDD Dual 1.47 GHz "FW800" connected to Sonnet SATA Controller	Working	Not Working
PowerMac G4 MDD Dual 1.47 GHz "FW800" direct connected to the LogicBoard with IDE-SATA adapter	Working	Working (only 128GB partition possible to create)
PowerMac G4 MDD Single 1.25 GHz "FW400" direct connected to the LogicBoard with IDE-SATA adapter	Working	Not Working
PowerMac G4 MDD Single 1.25 GHz "FW400" connected to Sonnet SATA Controller	Working	Working (only 128GB partition possible to create)

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Man, that is wild. Thank you for puting the data set together. Odd thing is that I have Netac 128gb drives in my pmg4 quicksilver & PMG5 a1117 running Sorbet & 10.5.8. How random that it does not work in your a1047 or the others you noted. I would have guessed otherwise. I should buy more of those cheap netacs and stick them in all PPCs n see which complain to expand on the list.

 

[fehervaria]

@Certificate of Excellence
May guess is not the manufacturer or the size of the disk, then the SATA "backward compatibility".
My G5 A1047 has a 1TB hard disk connected to the logic board's SATA controller. This disk works in any G4 I own. The SanDisk SSD is already 4 or 5 years old and the Netac manufactured April this year. Maybe the newer SSD does not support the SATA standard from the early 2000s?
The final setup the Netac 256GB is in the G4 MDD 1.25 "FW400" - partitioned to 1x 128GB and connected over the IDE-SATA adapter.
The SanDisk 128GB is in the G5 A1047 connected to the Sonnet SATA controller.

The most interesting is the Netac 256 GB SSD connected to the G5's logic board controller, it pops up on the Desktop, possible to work with it: partition, format, copy contents to it, but it NEVER boots. When I push the option button at the boot then it do not pops up anymore in the selectable disk's list. If I switch to Open Firmware console - the disk is visible but cannot do "dir" to list its content.at the next boot it blocks the whole system to boot. Then have to remove from the SATA bus, boot up from the hard disk, shut down, connect again the SSD to the SATA bus... and then it is visible and appears on the Desktop...