Issues with OS install on PowerBook 165c

[mac27]

Recently I finally went ahead and got a BlueSCSI for my PB 165c, which is currently still running its original 120MB HDD with System 7.1 installed.

I decided to try reinstalling that version since (a) that was what shipped on this machine originally, (b) it's what is installed on the HDD already so I know it works, and (c) every online resource states that the 165c is compatible with it.

However ... after installing the BlueSCSI and inserting a known-good System 7.1 Install 1 floppy, an error appears that states 7.1 "will not work" on this machine. So, it seems I cannot install System 7.1 despite the fact that this machine was already literally running ... *checks notes* System 7.1.

Is there some kind of voodoo-magic required to get this to work, or am I just missing something here? I'm familiar with seeing this error when trying to install OS versions that are obviously totally incompatible with a particular machine, but have been quite baffled to see it in this case.


Screenshot running off the original HDD:

Error message:

From EveryMac:

 

[Fizzbinn]

What are you using for your System 7.1 install source? I ask as 7.1 requires "System Enablers" to work on many systems (including the PB 165c) I would expect you'd see that error if you are using a 7.1 install source (floppies? images?) that includes a System Enabler for another model Mac.

Neat page that lists all the System Enablers:

Macintosh System Enablers for OS 7.1 to 7.5.5: Current Versions and Change History – David and Steve's Blog

www.savagetaylor.com

The "Apple Legacy Software Recovery CD" has the 7.1 install floppy images for the PB 165c:

Apple Legacy Software Recovery CD - Macintosh Garden

This is Apple Legacy Recovery disc dated October 1999. This CD includes most items designed for classic Macintosh computers such as Mac OS, A/UX software, peripherals, and applications. It also includes the software for Apple II, Apple Lisa, Apple Newton, drivers for DOS/Windows, and more.

macintoshgarden.org

 

[mac27]

Using some installer floppies I got a while back for it, I think from here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/353378805901

Is it possible to get the system enabler for the 165c (.bin file?) to the floppies somehow? Or are they just useless with this particular machine...

 

[Fizzbinn]

I'm not sure if something like that would work. My guess is your 7.1 floppies are the upgrade version that work with Macs released before 7.1 came out.

You could overwrite the floppies if you have a way of doing that. Another old Mac, modern machine with floppy drive. I haven't really tried to do something like that though other here might have guidance.

If it were me, since you have a BlueSCSI, on my modern machine I would download the Apple Legacy Software Recovery CD iso image, copy it to the SD card with the naming convention that makes it show up as a virtual CD-ROM. The PB would boot from that and then you can use its PB 165c specific 7.1 installer on your BlueSCSI HD. Make sense?

 

[mac27]

Thanks for the advice. I'd also much prefer the second route. I've got the .iso zip file downloaded; is there any special naming to make it show up as a virtual CD-ROM off the SD card?

 

[Fizzbinn]

Usage - BlueSCSI v2 Documentation

BlueSCSI v2 Documentation.

bluescsi.com

Something like this should work, emulating a CD-ROM on SCSI ID 3:
CD30_Apple_Legacy_Recovery.iso

Of note they list that Apple Legacy Software Recovery CD iso on Macintosh Garden in their doc on BlueSCSI images:

BlueSCSI Images - BlueSCSI v2 Documentation

BlueSCSI v2 Documentation.

bluescsi.com

 

[mac27]

Thanks .. am going to give this a shot tomorrow, appreciate the advice!

 

[mac27]

Ok, so I've spent several hours trying to get this to work but unfortunately haven't had much luck. After putting the .iso onto the SD card in the BlueSCSI, the machine does not recognize it and I can't figure out a way to get it to boot from the device. I've probably disassembled and reassembled the PowerBook about a dozen times so it's just more of a hassle than it's worth at this point.

I did not realize how complex it is to get one of these things working; having (apparently, naively) hoped that it would be possible to just install the device, load some files onto the BlueSCSI, and just boot the machine from there to install the OS. But, it seems to be vastly more complicated than that and way over my head.

Thank you for the help, either way!

 

[croissantking]

I agree this is because of a missing enabler. You can download this from the Garden and just add it into your existing 7.1 install.

 

[mac27]

Yeah, I discovered it is System Enabler 131. Apparently the 165c is one of a select few 'oddball' machines that requires this under 7.1, as usually you can just use a "standard" installer with most other 1xx series machines. I've been wondering how/why someone would be selling install disks that are unusable, since they don't have the proper enabler(s) - so that would make far more sense. Going to give it another shot today...

[From Macintosh Garden:]

 

[croissantking]

Yeah, I discovered it is System Enabler 131. Apparently the 165c is one of a select few 'oddball' machines that requires this under 7.1, as usually you can just use a "standard" installer with most other 1xx series machines. I've been wondering how/why someone would be selling install disks that are unusable, since they don't have the proper enabler(s) - so that would make far more sense. Going to give it another shot today...

[From Macintosh Garden:]

View attachment 16690

I think this is normal, that a standard set of 7.1 installer disks will not have all the various enablers included. For systems such as the 165c, you’d need to use the installation media that specifically came with the machine.

Also, I can confirm that the PowerBook 160/165/180 also need this enabler 131 under 7.1. The 140/170 don’t as they were launched before the general release of System 7.1, so the custom code needed to boot these machines would have been integrated into the system.

 

[mac27]

Right, I guess that's what I'm saying - I was confused as to why these disks would be sold if they're useless, because I hadn't realized I was working with a ~special~ system that requires a particular enabler.

My confusion likely stemmed from the fact that this is the *opposite* of how later Mac OS installers work - e.g., if I get a standard installer for OS 9 or even OS X, I can use that to install onto any system I damn please (as long as it's compatible). LOL

Anyways, I tried your suggestion but it does not allow me to add the enabler to the install disk (says the disk is locked and does not allow anything to be copied onto it). So I guess I will have to see about getting another set of disks that are configured with the installer from the get-go.

 

[mac27]

Alrighty, so a few signs of progress but still no success yet:

After a week of sitting, the PowerBook has now decided that it sees the BlueSCSI and will boot from it

I also got my hands on a proper set of 7.1 disks with the correct enabler. Attempting to format the BlueSCSI using Apple HD SC Setup, I get a rapidly-spinning black-and-white ball (looks like solid black here) and it eventually throws this error.

I have tried (a) both a 128GB and a 16GB micro-SD card (I've read online that others have used these sizes with no issues after partitioning), (b) formatting them as both exFAT and FAT32 on my modern Mac, (c) using both GUID and Apple Partition Map. Nothing has worked. I re-read a lot of the documentation on the BlueSCSI site and re-watched several of the videos (including Geeky Bit's SD formatting guide), but I cannot see anything that I am doing wrong here. Is there something else I am missing?

 

[phunguss]

Do you have to the option to connect your original drive and the BlueSCSIv2 to the same computer and just clone the drive? I am no expert soldering guru myself, but the closeup of the BlueSCSI appears to have very inconsistent solder joints between the Raspberry Pi and the BlueSCSI board (some holes filled, some not, granted these are not hole through soldering, but still inconsistent).

 

[mac27]

I bought this BlueSCSI pre-built, so I spoke with the person who built it for me and they said it looks correct (these are "castellated" edges so this is normal in appearance for them).

After *many* more hours of troubleshooting, I finally got the BlueSCSI to work. I was (due to my own inexperience) trying to initialize the SD card beforehand without the proper .hda image file present on it, which may be why it couldn't be initialized. After reformatting an SD card as FAT32 and copying an .hda file onto it with a pre-loaded 7.1 installation already present, the PB booted right up!

Now, the odd part: I had originally intended to use a 16GB SanDisk Ultra card for this, but long-story-short I discovered that this card DOES NOT WORK with the BlueSCSI (at least in this model/machine/configuration). I would format it as FAT32, copy the .hda file onto it, and install it into the BlueSCSI, but the blue light on the BlueSCSI would flash (which I think means it can't read the card?) and the machine would not recognize it or even write a log file onto it.

The card that ended up working is a 128GB SanDisk Extreme PLUS card, which - when set up *exactly* the same way as FAT32 with .hda copied over - worked just fine. The machine boots from it immediately, writes the log file to it, and the happy green light on the BlueSCSI flashes.

So, these two cards are formatted and set up exactly the same way, but one of them works and the other doesn't. If I'd known that certain types of SD cards were required beforehand that would have saved me a toooon of time and headache, but this is not mentioned anywhere in the BlueSCSi documentation as far as I can tell. If anyone has any insight into this, I'd love to hear your thoughts!

 

[Kai Robinson]

Have you tried using Disk Jockey to create the SD card blank drive image you can just install a system to?

 

[mac27]

Yes, that was one of the things I tried. I don't know if it's something wrong with my system, but I have never been able to get the Disk Jockey program to work properly - when I try to click "Create the Image", it just does nothing. It's almost like it's saving to the default location (Downloads) but I've checked and there is no .hda there. Not sure if this is a bug or what.

I was eventually able to get a premade drive image with 7.1 installed from another source (person) and that is what ended up working.

 

[This Does Not Compute]

I'd recommend formatting the SD card as ExFAT, which is the preferred option as it lets you work with larger disk images (per spec, FAT32 supports files no larger than 4GB).

Also, if you haven't already, it would be a good idea to download the Apple Legacy Recovery CD image from the Macintosh Garden. It's bootable on many machines (it includes a Mac OS 7.6 System Folder) and has the original software installers for everything 68k and early PPC. You can sort the installers by computer model so there's no guesswork as to which specific patches or enablers you need.

 

[mac27]

Thanks - yeah, those were both things I tried (before I got it working) but we've since discovered that the problem all along may have been something unrelated: the extra pin on the SCSI header wasn't properly removed and was preventing the cable from seating fully, which may have been the source of these issues. That would explain why it's been such an intermittent and odd issue, and why I couldn't seem to boot from the ALR CD image on the BlueSCSI initially.

Going to get the header replaced in the coming days and hopefully that'll sort this once and for all! Assuming I can get the thing to boot from SD reliably after this fix, will definitely reformat the SD as exFAT. The 7.1 image was working well (during times I could get it to boot) but I'll probably throw the ALR CD image back on there as well, just to have it.