Mac Classic ROM chip - replacement or more troubleshooting? SOLVED

caver01

Tinkerer
Oct 30, 2021
93
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I am restoring a Mac Classic. Recapped the logic board, fixed a trace or two. Washed everything thoroughly, so no more residue. Overall, the board looks pretty clean now. However, a boot test results in clean, unwavering black and white checkerboard.

5v and 12v power tests fine, CRT is nice and bright, crisp, no shimmering—basically no evidence of issues (yet) on the analog board which looks very clean.

SO, research is guiding me to the ROM. Started by double-checking orientation and position (40 pin chip in a 42-pin socket. . . you know the drill). Tried a little Deoxit. ROM is properly installed position, but still no joy.

I have no knowledge of this ROM chip—might be good, might be bad, might have been installed improperly by previous owner at some point. Who knows. I also don’t have any spare Classic parts to swap.

I thought maybe I had a rotten via or a bad trace on the address bus, so I started testing continuity between the ROM and the CPU using Bomarc schematics. The schematics are not right--I know that much. There is definitely a pattern. I can’t remember now whether it was the address lines or the data lines, but there is some interleaving where testing the bus lines in order skip every other pin on the ROM as you move through the sequentially. . . In any case, I was able to confirm continuity on all of them, even though they don’t perfectly match expectations from Bomarc. I have seen others write about this too, so I assume it is a known discrepancy.

Where does that leave me? I cannot find a fault in the board, but I am suspicious of the ROM chip itself. Coincidentally, I just watched @Mac84 create his own Mac Classic ROM using an EPROM burner. Fascinating, and reassuring, but I am hoping he, or someone else who has done this maybe has a spare or two they would be willing to sell to me. SO, what say you? DOES ANYONE HAVE A SPARE ROM?

If there is a good source or better place to ask, I can do that. Also, I would entertain additional troubleshooting ideas if you have any.

Thanks!
 

rjkucia

Tinkerer
Dec 21, 2021
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Madison, Wisconsin, USA
From my understanding, the checkerboard pattern does indeed indicate a bad ROM. I haven't seen standalone ROMs for the Classic listed anywhere, but as you said you should be able to burn an EEPROM and fit in in there. I think he had to do some custom wiring to make the pins line up but I couldn't find that in the video on my quick skim of it.

I do have an EEPROM programmer, but haven't used it yet and this would probably be a poor first-attempt since you're looking for a known good ROM. EEPROM programmers are fairly inexpensive on their own - I think this is what I have: https://www.amazon.com/ARCELI-TL866...words=EEPROM+Programmer&qid=1643039458&sr=8-2
 

caver01

Tinkerer
Oct 30, 2021
93
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18
Good to know I have not been missing a source of these. I suspect anyone reading this who has a spare Classic ROM from a parts LB or battery-bombed unit probably wants to keep theirs which I totally understand.

I have a buddy in town with a EEPROM burner. I need to reach out. Also, the recent examples of this working (@Mac84 comes to mind) holds some promise for going at it armed with the right chips and a file. All I have to lose is time and the price of the chips. Speaking of which, I think in the video I watched it was mentioned that the right chips took a while to obtain. I suppose I should setup an order to get that rolling in any case.
 

max1zzz

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 23, 2021
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Where in the world are you?
AFAIK the correct EPROM is a 27C400, they aren't hard to find but you'll likley only be able to get them from china, the real difficulty is the common EPROM programmer (the TL866) dose not support these out the box and you need to get a programming adapter.

I have 27C400's in stock and have the appropriate adapter to program them, but depending on where you are shipping could be expensive

Oh and btw, it would be better to post WTB threads in the appropriate trading post section (If you let me know where in the world you are I can get this thread moved there)
 

caver01

Tinkerer
Oct 30, 2021
93
64
18
@max1zzz Much appreciated! It makes a lot more sense for this to move to a marketplace forum—especially since I put WTB in the title. Sorry about that. Still, a little troubleshooting confirmation was worth it here.

I am in Portland, OR, but I have not started shopping for EPROMs. I was merely repeating what @Mac84 mentioned in his video—that the chips took a while to source. I meant to go back through the video to note the correct EPROM model pending the outcome of this discussion. Thanks for the 27C400 reference. I may be your customer soon, assuming you can ship to Oregon.
 

warmech

Tinkerer
Oct 30, 2021
79
101
33
@max1zzz Much appreciated! It makes a lot more sense for this to move to a marketplace forum—especially since I put WTB in the title. Sorry about that. Still, a little troubleshooting confirmation was worth it here.

I am in Portland, OR, but I have not started shopping for EPROMs. I was merely repeating what @Mac84 mentioned in his video—that the chips took a while to source. I meant to go back through the video to note the correct EPROM model pending the outcome of this discussion. Thanks for the 27C400 reference. I may be your customer soon, assuming you can ship to Oregon.
I have a few dead Classic boards sitting next to me in a box, actually. What are the chip numbers printed on your ROMs?
 

max1zzz

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 23, 2021
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Thanks for the 27C400 reference. I may be your customer soon, assuming you can ship to Oregon
Yeah I can ship to the US, shipping from the UK is expensive though (would likely be around £10-15.....) so if one can be found locally that might be better cost wise!

I just had a flick through @Mac84's video and the 27C400 is indeed the correct EPROM
 

caver01

Tinkerer
Oct 30, 2021
93
64
18
What are the chip numbers printed on your ROMs?
0572389C-8189-498F-B332-5261904725B6.jpeg
 

warmech

Tinkerer
Oct 30, 2021
79
101
33
Well, I must apologize - I appear to have a box of dead Classic IIs, not Classic Is. :(
 

caver01

Tinkerer
Oct 30, 2021
93
64
18
Successful Macintosh troubleshooting is rewarded with a chime! It‘s actually a great feeling to hear that when you have only received blank displays, stripes or checkerboard visuals. I am happy to report that I fixed the Mac Classic.

After an easy recap and cleaning, this logic board had several corroded areas. The pins of Q1 for example were hidden under a crust of black gunk and the via next to pin 5 was rotten. UH6 was hiding a broken trace from pin 11 directly under the package. Yet, even after removing and resoldering these along with several bodge wires I still had the checkerboard. Despite continuity testing all address and data lines from the ROM to the CPU, the Classic refused to sing a note.

As I mentioned above, I was hoping to try another ROM. I even ordered EPROMs and planned a burn session with a friend, but I had obtained the wrong chips! We decided to read the existing ROM anyway and compared it to a downloaded file and they were identical—sort of a good news bad news situation. Frustrated, I worked on some other systems while I ordered the correct EPROMs anyway. My original ROM was OK, but a spare or two couldn’t hurt and it was a good learning process.

Yesterday, I thought I would check my recapping work for bridges or shorts, as several of the caps straddle multiple traces. After about an hour of careful inspection and checks here and there, I turned my gaze back to the area near Q1. Thats when I noticed the thin traces from pins 8 and 9 on UG8 — the SWIM chip — looked a little sketchy. The traces divert around Q1, under C8, then around the power connector and toward the ROM. . . Hmm. . . maybe I was onto something?

I found an easy spot to scrape away some solder mask on the trace from pin 9 which buzzed OK. Pin 8 however was not connecting to its trace! I found a corroded break in the trace right at the pad for pin 8–an easy fix.

BING! Gotta love that sound!
 
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caver01

Tinkerer
Oct 30, 2021
93
64
18
Today, we finally had a chance to burn a couple EPROMs. Two out of four worked fine. The other two failed to write for some reason, even after successful erasing.

I tested the custom ROM and the Classic boots right up! Very cool. Now I have a couple of spare. Even though the original ROM turned out to be OK, I am going to run the custom EPROM for the fun of it. I am attaching a picture of the final work completed. Note the long bodge around one of the smaller chips and some work on the SWIM chip and Q1 near the four capacitors.

0B1BDBA5-169C-4E7C-9184-308DCF82FEFC.jpeg

This was a fun project. On to the next one!
 
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