Poll - Extending the term length of the board

[3lectr1c]

When it was removed, we did make it clear that posts weren't being deleted either, merely moved, so that point doesn't stand either.

Where was this? The language used in the announcement was “If you have posts or information within this section that you wish to retain, please backup or migrate this data to another section of the forum prior to the removal date. We apologise for any inconvenience caused”.
That says they’re being removed, not moved.
I can find some of the vendor threads in other sub forums now, but I don’t think all of them are there?

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

At 44 yay to 5 nay, I think it is pretty clear that the community sees the functional logic in and stands in favor of extending term limits. I believe that directly related to that is the issue of adjusting term limits perhaps to not require a one year gap but with the requirement being that a different role be taken so if motivated folks want to continue to participate, that enthusiasm is not squashed through unnecessary idealism. That is if the multi year term (whatever it ends up being) is not tied to successive roles ie: Y1 treasure Y2 secretary, Y3 VP, Y4 Pres etc.

I can say with experience that when successive roles are linked in multi year terms, it leads to a board that naturally is quite supportive and cooperative with each other which is exactly what you want. It fosters the exact teamwork needed to pass the baton well because those other folks are already familiar with what board operations (the baton) look & feel like. They understand the expectation.

 

[JDW]

I'm pleased with all the recent posts. Sure, some are off topic, but that only makes the case for my earlier post, which in comparison really isn't OT at all!

Don't take this as chastisement though, because I'm one of those easy-going, freedom-loving types that doesn't get upset by OT posts, unless they are way out in the ballpark like "I had blueberry waffles for breakfast." At least the posts here are largely talking about the same thing, with the same goals of keeping this forum alive and kicking.

Another benefit of the recent posts which are a bit off topic is that it has made this discussion a bit more fun. Eric mention "fun" in his recent post, and I'm all for that. (Just not 100% fun. We do have work to do.) The more fun and open you make a discussion, the more inviting it seems to be to people, and the more people will participate. Sure, there's a risk they may not chime in about the main topic of the 1 to 3 year term extension, but making people feel good when posting is a big part of what Tinker Different about. That other forum "which shall not be named" (LOL) is more about rules and warning points and maintaining designated forum bullies.

Now as to data loss, that happened multiple times at the other forum, even back in the days when Tom Levens ruled the roost. I know because I complained to him about at the the time. That didn't prevent other episodes of data loss from happening though after he was gone. And on that note, I wish to COMMEND the board, especially the folks who have been in charge of the Tinker Different server, for helping us to avoid any kind of data loss at all! Thank you, gentlemen!

And that leads me back to the original point of TERMS.

Some of the posts on the board really are more important than others. The server guys are critically important because without them, we don't have a forum, and all the polling in the world about longer terms is utterly irrelevant. My biggest concern from the beginning was about term lengths and term limits for the guys in charge of the server. A president, vp, secretary, etc. can come and go, but if we change the server wizards every year and then get a guy in there who hasn't the finest idea what he's doing, then our entire forum is at stake.

So I would like to ask a pointed an truly on-topic question about that.

How will a change in terms from 1 year to 3 years impact people in charge of the server? Or will they be treated like every other member of the board?

Again, the biggest "risk" to an every changing board isn't in the other positions of power, which really do need to change. Keeping the big cheese changing is good. That falls in line with NO PERPETUAL KINGS. But changing the server guys too often could undermine our core goal of zero data loss, assuming somebody gets into that position who isn't quite up to the task like @fogWraith and whoever is assisting him now (Eric?).

Sorry for another long post, but I really am excited to talk about these matters, and I am glad to see others are chiming in to, even if some topics have strayed a bit.

 

[JDW]

At 44 yay to 5 nay, I think it is pretty clear that the community sees the functional logic in and stands in favor of extending term limits...

I don't wish to say anything for or against a TERM LENGTH change so as not to influence anyone, but to help us all keep "the community" in perspective...

• TinkerDifferent has 1522 members as of the time I posted this.
• 56 have voted.

That means only 3.4% have voted.

And yet, there are just under 1000 "views" of this thread. Even if we consider that all the people who voted and commented are viewing this thread multiple times, that won't come anywhere close to 1000. So I'd like to encourage VIEWERS of this thread to PLEASE VOTE!

It would be great if we could hit at least 10% of the voter base.

If you know somebody who hasn't voted, maybe send them a PM. A lot of people may simply not even know about this poll, even though it is featured rather prominently in the forum.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

I don't wish to say anything for or against a TERM LENGTH change so as not to influence anyone, but to help us all keep "the community" in perspective...

• TinkerDifferent has 1522 members as of the time I posted this.
• 56 have voted.

That means only 3.4% have voted.

And yet, there are just under 1000 "views" of this thread. Even if we consider that all the people who voted and commented are viewing this thread multiple times, that won't come anywhere close to 1000. So I'd like to encourage VIEWERS of this thread to PLEASE VOTE!

It would be great if we could hit at least 10% of the voter base.

If you know somebody who hasn't voted, maybe send them a PM. A lot of people may simply not even know about this poll, even though it is featured rather prominently in the forum.

Mechanically, this is how I would envision how an IT term of 3 years would look.

This would produce one year of potential onboarding overlap/redundancy if needed. I am not in IT so am unsure if this overlap is realistic thus would be needed but it makes sense to me to have a chunk of time to make sure the newly voted in person can do it outside of onboarding etc. due to the sensitive nature of the role.

Subsequently this schedule could work for all of the positions if a 3yr single role term is chosen.

 

[phunguss]

If you know somebody who hasn't voted, maybe send them a PM.

Does the forum not have a function that a moderator can email all members to notify them of the poll? I know I get email notifications on threads I watch.

 

[JDW]

Does the forum not have a function that a moderator can email all members to notify them of the poll? I know I get email notifications on threads I watch.

A mass emailing to all forum members is a decision the board must make. I must say though that it would have a major impact on voter turn-out for any given cause. However, the board has not send out mass email notifications during past board member elections, so I suspect they won't do it in this case. But there is a case to be made for that, assuming most forum members would appreciate email notifications of important matters. But it would be up to the board to decide what matters fall into that category.

All said, I would not mind if I received an email notification from TinkerDifferent regarding important topics like this poll, board member votes, etc. Those emails would appear very infrequently so I personally would not find them obtrusive.

Of course, some will say this too should be placed in the FEEDBACK section.

 

[3lectr1c]

That other forum "which shall not be named" (LOL) is more about rules and warning points and maintaining designated forum bullies.

That hasn't been my experience at all on 68kMLA, not even close. Kai's made it clear that he'd prefer we keep more on topic so I won't write at length here, but if you'd like to spin up another thread you can. I have some thoughts on the whole situation surrounding the animosity between some of the folks on both forums.

 

[Fizzbinn]

Of course, some will say this too should be placed in the FEEDBACK section.

Where I'm from this sounds a bit like someone who says "Bless your heart" when they mean the opposite, please don't make a joke of legitimate efforts to keep a thread on topic. Those of us commenting on some things being off topic and best suited for a new thread in the feedback thread have just as valid a point of view as you and don't deserved to be mocked. And no, I would not say that this (getting more feedback on the main question at hand) is off topic it is directly related to the question of this thread unlike something like whether Tinkerdifferent should have a Discord presence or not.

 

[JDW]

Where I'm from this sounds a bit like someone who says "Bless your heart" when they mean the opposite, please don't make a joke of legitimate efforts to keep a thread on topic. Those of us commenting on some things being off topic and best suited for a new thread in the feedback thread have just as valid a point of view as you and don't deserved to be mocked. And no, I would not say that this (getting more feedback on the main question at hand) is off topic it is directly related to the question of this thread unlike something like whether Tinkerdifferent should have a Discord presence or not.

I did not view it as “mocking“ anyone. A little bit of poking fun with people who are understanding, just like Eric did to me earlier and I accepted it without being upset. But it seems rather clear you took it very personally and are upset. So here’s how I’m going to solve that problem.

I will refrain from posting anything else in this comment section and allow all of you to continue the discussion without me.

I think that will help make everyone feel just fine. Besides, I think I’ve said enough anyway.

Best wishes.

 

[Fizzbinn]

That hasn't been my experience at all on 68kMLA, not even close. Kai's made it clear that he'd prefer we keep more on topic so I won't write at length here, but if you'd like to spin up another thread you can. I have some thoughts on the whole situation surrounding the animosity between some of the folks on both forums.

Nor mine. No doubt there have been serious data loss issues over the years at 68kMLA but there are a lot of folks that participate there (and not here) with extensive knowledge that I find helpful. Likewise I'm also here because the reverse is also true. I do think it might be a good idea to start a different thread on what Tinker Different might do in the coming years to differentiate itself and possibly become the/a leading place for all/some? retro computing discussion/info/etc. Not an easy question/answer perhaps...

 

[Fizzbinn]

I did not view it as “mocking“ anyone. A little bit of poking fun with people who are understanding, just like Eric did to me earlier and I accepted it without being upset. But it seems rather clear you took it very personally and are upset. So here’s how I’m going to solve that problem.

I will refrain from posting anything else in this comment section and allow all of you to continue the discussion without me.

I think that will help make everyone feel just fine. Besides, I think I’ve said enough anyway.

Best wishes.

I appreciate your explanation of your intention but I think it's important to let people know how they are coming across to others in their communications regardless. The mutual poking fun you refer to seems quite passive aggressive in my opinion. Of course this is only my opinion so I certainly don't want my feedback to you to make you feel you need to decide to stop participating in this discussion on whether the board member terms should be extended/refactored (and how info to make that decision is collected).

 

[Fizzbinn]

Lastly just wanted to mention as someone asked - we cross post all board communications (including this poll) to Discord https://discord.com/channels/904011135664152627/1054164310982656000/1191910799380324512 (posted on Jan 2nd, 2024)

As I'm the one who asked, thanks very much for posting this. I do agree with others (like @JDW I think?) that it is important that a wide net is cast to get feedback on this issue and I had incorrectly guessed that this reach out to Tinker different Discord users may not have been done in a previous post. My bad.

 

[Volvo242GT]

at the risk of being OT. is that forum dead?
i seem to get redirected to something weird when i try to visit it.

Yeah, it died in 2019 or so. LCGuy (the admin over there) was mostly running it out of his own pocket and offered it up to the rest of the forum, but no one else came forward to take it over. So, it went away.

 

[Androda]

On the question of when we close this poll and "count the results", there are about 75 to 80 daily active users on the forum. We posted a notice about this poll in Discord 10 days ago. And there's been a banner at the top of the forum since the 7th.

Based on these daily active user numbers, this means we have a 66% active user voting turnout based on 80 active users. Rises to 70% active user voting turnout at 75 daily active users.

This is in my opinion enough turnout from the active membership to close the poll and accept the results.

It also says to me that although we have a rather large total membership number, not very many people are active. This could be for a variety of reasons, such as the over-crowded forum scene mentioned by 3lectr1c.

 

[eric]

That says they’re being removed, not moved.
I can find some of the vendor threads in other sub forums now, but I don’t think all of them are there?

Every post was moved (by me) to the most appropriate sub forum I could find - all 10 or so. Nothing was deleted (as that's 100% against our goals here for data retention) - The wording was confusing but that was never our intent, should have clarified in that post.

How will a change in terms from 1 year to 3 years impact people in charge of the server? Or will they be treated like every other member of the board?

Again, the biggest "risk" to an every changing board isn't in the other positions of power, which really do need to change. Keeping the big cheese changing is good. That falls in line with NO PERPETUAL KINGS. But changing the server guys too often could undermine our core goal of zero data loss, assuming somebody gets into that position who isn't quite up to the task like @fogWraith and whoever is assisting him now (Eric?).

This is a good call out and we've thrown around some ideas internally - just handing root access to a new voted in board member would indeed be a huge risk to the stability of the site. The idea was to have an "administration" group for those few tasks that are not easily transitioned. Do we want to hand over the bank account every 1 to 3 years too? The "administration" group would be designated by the board to do the will of the board. The same way you have a business manager or director of IT ops - they are not on the board but do the day to day ditch digging needed. Heck we could have a board where no member has any IT ops experience, we cant just shut down the forum.

And yet, there are just under 1000 "views" of this thread.

To be clear 1000 views does not mean 1000 people - I've likely viewed this thread 100 times. A view is a user looking at the thread during a session or after there is a new post. 1000 views seems appropriate - and @Androda's calculation of actual seems more apt.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

This is a good call out and we've thrown around some ideas internally - just handing root access to a new voted in board member would indeed be a huge risk to the stability of the site. The idea was to have an "administration" group for those few tasks that are not easily transitioned. Do we want to hand over the bank account every 1 to 3 years too? The "administration" group would be designated by the board to do the will of the board. The same way you have a business manager or director of IT ops - they are not on the board but do the day to day ditch digging needed. Heck we could have a board where no member has any IT ops experience, we cant just shut down the forum.

This is a great approach. On past boards I was a part of, there was a hired, 3rd party team that answered to the treasurer directly but also the board and provided the budgeting data needed to project future initiatives (amongst other necessary tasks), so with such a sensitive, potentially TD stopping role, it makes sense to have a team or teams not part of a term cycle that can continue physical operations without worry of passing any baton really.

That being said, those roles are not terribly popular as an act of generosity as its all the work and none of the glory. As they are as of now, unpaid positions, some perks would need to be in place I think like free beer Fridays

 

[Androda]

I am inclined to suggest that we declare the voting closed. This poll was posted on December 30th 2023, so it has been up for 15+ days. This is more than enough time for the active users that wish to participate in the poll to cast their vote.

As of now (January 16, 2024 at around 13:20 UTC) 58 votes have been cast in the following manner:

52 votes Yes (89.7%)
6 votes No (10.3%)

Given these results, the current Board of Directors' term will be extended from 2023-only to 2023 through end of 2025 (3 years in total).

 

[Drake]

Thank you everyone who voted, Every vote was essentially a vote for Drake.