Radius Full Page Display connector

[wottle]

Anyone know which Radius FPD would use this connector? Picking up this Mac SE today, but unfortunately the owner doesn't have the display to go with it. Most of the FPDs I've seen have a connector with 9 pins, I believe. This 15 pin connector is different. Did they have a 15 pin to 9 pin cable, or was there another FPD model that accepted 15 pins?

Also, are there any other monitors I can hook up to this card to get a secondary display?

 

[Trash80toG4]

Bookmarked links are timing out for me, but there's an extensive Q&A on FPD models and compatibility to check out.

radius.vintagebox.de/RadiusQA/SupportQA.html

http://radius.vintagebox.de/RadiusQA/FPD64_68.html

There are multiple backups online, does anyone have a working link?

 

[mg.man]

There are multiple backups online, does anyone have a working link?

This appears to be the last capture - https://web.archive.org/web/20200130110108/http://radius.vintagebox.de/RadiusQA/FPD64_68.html

 

[Trash80toG4]

If I had to bet a nickel on it, I'd say that's a standard DA15 Macintosh port for a cord with 13w3 at the other end for hooking it up to the Portrait Display as well as one Radius FPD or other.

 

[wottle]

So I actually have the 75Hz version: https://web.archive.org/web/20120618162410/http://radius.vintagebox.de:80/RadiusQA/FPD_75Hz.html

Looks like it uses a DB15 to HD15 cable normally.

It sounds like it also is compatible with the Apple Portrait Display. I'm hoping that I can possibly find / make a HD15 to DB15 cable, and either a Radius or Apple Portrait Display and see if this thing works. It appears to be working at least partially, because I see the Radius ROM loading on the boot screen. The HD is dead, so looking to throw 6.0.8 on a BlueSCSI with the Radius software. It sounds like the control panel won't load unless there's a monitor connected, so it may be a while before I can test.

 

[Trash80toG4]

I figured yours for the 75Hz version given that connector. No Apple of Radius Displays or VidCards that I know of used HD15/VGA Connector in that era. Thanks for the links, @mg.man

If you have a multisync LCD, hook a Mac VGA adapter up to that backplane connector and have at it. I got the TPD card for the SE to throw pixels at an LCD that way.

 

[wottle]

I figured yours for the 75Hz version given that connector. No Apple of Radius Displays or VidCards that I know of used HD15/VGA Connector in that era. Thanks for the links, @mg.man

If you have a multisync LCD, hook a Mac VGA adapter up to that backplane connector and have at it. I got the TPD card for the SE to throw pixels at an LCD that way.

Oh, so I can use a HD15 to DB15 adapter with the multi-sync setting to connect it to a normal VGA multi-sync CRT? I'll give that a try.

 

[ScutBoy]

If you use the Apple Portrait on that card, it will have a slight "shimmer" to it, I'm guessing due to the slight difference in refresh rates - 67Mhz vs 75Mhz IIRC.

It does work though, since I had the same card at one time with the Apple display.

 

[Trash80toG4]

ISTR someone explaining that "shimmer" in the Portrait has something to do with having a pair of CRTs on the same AC feed mucking somethingorother up?

Dunno, when I put a sheet of galvanized steel between Radius TPD and Portrait sitting next to each other. I'd figured the problem was RFI and it went away, don't think I ever even needed to ground it.

 

[Trash80toG4]

Oh, so I can use a HD15 to DB15 adapter with the multi-sync setting to connect it to a normal VGA multi-sync CRT? I'll give that a try.

Sounds like a plan. I'm wondering if a specific Radius Cable for running the Portrait was required? Lots of crazy cable models listed for different combinations in that Q$A

Looking at the board you might find Radius using a sense line spell to weave multiple sync output magic for Radius vs. Apple display requirements? Can't think of a better explanation for switching to Apple's proprietary DA15 video connection.

Bog simple test might be checking multisync against Portrait settings on the adapter?

What's the copyright date on boards and ROM on your card combo?

Hope this makes some sense, still trying to coffee up for the day.

 

[wottle]

Sounds like a plan. I'm wondering if a specific Radius Cable for running the Portrait was required? Lots of crazy cable models listed for different combinations in that Q$A

Looking at the board you might find Radius using a sense line spell to weave multiple sync output magic for Radius vs. Apple display requirements? Can't think of a better explanation for switching to Apple's proprietary DA15 video connection.

Bog simple test might be checking multisync against Portrait settings on the adapter?

What's the copyright date on boards and ROM on your card combo?

Hope this makes some sense, still trying to coffee up for the day.

I actually had my Apple 15" multi-scan display with HD-15 cable around, so I hooked it up to see what it would do. I do get a picture, but it is blue and distorted (resolution / refresh rate difference?). I can see the image well enough to move windows around, and even move the windows between the external monitor and the built-in CRT. Is the radius card set to output a particular, portrait resolution that the CRT isn't set to handle? Are there any multi-sync LCDs that work well for this, as I would love to have a monitor I could use as the external monitor with this SE (something reasonable until I can get my hands on a compatible portrait display.

The board is (c) 1990. The rom is v4.1 256k (c) 1991. The PN on the board is 820-0075-A.

I don't have any portrait CRTs to try, but it seems like if Radius switched to Apple's preferred connector, it would make sense it was so you could use it with Apple's portrait display. See pictures for how the screen looks

 

[Trash80toG4]

I think you need a bigger boat . . .

Apple Multple Scan 15 Display Specs: EveryMac.com

A complete guide of Every Mac and MacOS-Compatible in the world, with detailed technical, configuration, and pricing information.

everymac.com

Multi Scan is not MultiSync AFAIK. Sounds like it's doing its best, but not very close given available pre-sets on that list. Something like a Dell UltraSync(?) LCD should be part of every retro tool kit. They sync to just about anything thrown at them, but not quite just right on the Radius TPD/SE. I have three high end multisync CRTs, but only one did a bang up job, so . . .

My answer to just about any oddball proprietary RGB resolution is the Extron Scaler hooked up to an HDMI display.

Good & reasonable HDMI scaler: Extron RGB-HDMI 300(A)

At @Trash80toHP_Mini's request, a thread about the HDMI scaler I found myself using to do vintage Mac stuff on a modern screen. It works, at least for me, really well and I'd recommend it to other folks as well. It is also not *that* expensive. The model is Extron RGB-HDMI 300 or 300 A. I...

68kmla.org

 

[wottle]

OK, finally got my HDMI scaler. Unfortunately, it appears my HD died in the meantime. So I threw a 6.0.8 image on a BlueSCSI. I still get the Radius image on boot, so the ROM appears to be loading (I assume that's what it means) version 4.1E.

Unfortunately, I can't seem to get it to output video on the external connector. I found some radius system software (https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/radiusware-1990-displays-41-accelerator-29-radiusmath-15) and installed it, but when I boot with the "Classic/SE/+ Display" extension in the System folder, Upon boot up, when the extension loads, I get the "coprocessor not installed" error message:

I only have the display card, not the accelerator board that Radius also offered. Also, when installing, it seemed to know what to install because it only installed the "Classic/SE/+ Display" extension.

Any ideas on if I'm using the wrong software, or if there are other things to try? I did confirm the board was properly seated and the pins all looked good.

Really wished I had tried to backup the original hard drive when I first got it.

 

[wottle]

OK, so I removed the case of the original hard drive, and as expected, the rubber stoppers for the drive head were a gooey mess. I tried cleaning with ISO alcohol, but the stickiness remained. So I put some kapton tape over both stoppers. Fortunately, I was able to boot off the original hard drive. It was running 6.0.7, but I couldn't find any radius extension / control panel in the System Folder. However, I at least was getting some video out from the Radius card, just nothing my LCD with VGA input can seem to handle.

However, I'm hoping to get it running on 6.0.8 with the latest software. After reading more info in the Installer from macintoshgarden, it looks like I need the version 4.4 ROMs to use this card with the latest Radius software. The ROMs I have right now are for 4.1.

Anyone have the ability to flash some ROMs for me at a reasonable cost? Not sure how much I'll be doing, so purchasing a programmer, along with learning how to erase the EPROM (UV light, I believe, so could I use my retrobright UV box?) probably doesn't make much sense.

"You will need two 27C256 EPROMs (or compatible 256Kbx8 EEPROMs) flashed with each of the split files, then place them in the correct sockets (U18 and U19, respectively)."

I live in the US (South Carolina), but would appreciate the help.

 

[retr01]

Anyone have the ability to flash some ROMs for me at a reasonable cost? Not sure how much I'll be doing, so purchasing a programmer, along with learning how to erase the EPROM (UV light, I believe, so could I use my retrobright UV box?) probably doesn't make much sense.

"You will need two 27C256 EPROMs (or compatible 256Kbx8 EEPROMs) flashed with each of the split files, then place them in the correct sockets (U18 and U19, respectively)."

I live in the US (South Carolina), but would appreciate the help.

@jajan547 could help you with that.

 

[jajan547]

OK, so I removed the case of the original hard drive, and as expected, the rubber stoppers for the drive head were a gooey mess. I tried cleaning with ISO alcohol, but the stickiness remained. So I put some kapton tape over both stoppers. Fortunately, I was able to boot off the original hard drive. It was running 6.0.7, but I couldn't find any radius extension / control panel in the System Folder. However, I at least was getting some video out from the Radius card, just nothing my LCD with VGA input can seem to handle.

However, I'm hoping to get it running on 6.0.8 with the latest software. After reading more info in the Installer from macintoshgarden, it looks like I need the version 4.4 ROMs to use this card with the latest Radius software. The ROMs I have right now are for 4.1.

Anyone have the ability to flash some ROMs for me at a reasonable cost? Not sure how much I'll be doing, so purchasing a programmer, along with learning how to erase the EPROM (UV light, I believe, so could I use my retrobright UV box?) probably doesn't make much sense.

"You will need two 27C256 EPROMs (or compatible 256Kbx8 EEPROMs) flashed with each of the split files, then place them in the correct sockets (U18 and U19, respectively)."

I live in the US (South Carolina), but would appreciate the help.

I’m in North Carolina and can do them for you I only have one 256 chip but I have lots of 512 which is double the space but should work fine to program. Let me know if I can help.

 

[wottle]

I’m in North Carolina and can do them for you I only have one 256 chip but I have lots of 512 which is double the space but should work fine to program. Let me know if I can help

That would be great. So you can use a 512 chip in a socket expecting a 256? Basically, I think I just need the two 4.4 ROMs for u18 and u19 flashed. I believe that would be all I would need to get my card running and compatible with the latest version of the software.

I'm down south of the Charlotte area and if you're close enough I could come pick them up, or you could probably mail them. I could PayPal or Venmo you the money. Any idea how much it would cost?

 

[jajan547]

That would be great. So you can use a 512 chip in a socket expecting a 256? Basically, I think I just need the two 4.4 ROMs for u18 and u19 flashed. I believe that would be all I would need to get my card running and compatible with the latest version of the software.

I'm down south of the Charlotte area and if you're close enough I could come pick them up, or you could probably mail them. I could PayPal or Venmo you the money. Any idea how much it would cost?

I'll pM