SuperMac Supermatch 17 monitor missing pins

[wottle]

I picked up a bunch of old computers and CRTs late last year. In that haul was a SuperMac 17" CRT. I finally got around to trying to power it on and while it does power on and show a green LED on the front, I get no picture. However, when I turn it off, I do get the lines at shutdown that makes me hopeful that the high voltage stuff is working. That may be a bad assumption, so let me know if I would still see that if the flyback or other HV components are bad. It made me think maybe it is a problem with the input. I don't know much about these monitors, but it does have a DA-15 connector on it.

However, when I looked at the connector, several pins are missing. Looking at a pin-out, it seems like the following pins are missing:

3,4,7,8,10. I found a pin-out diagram online, and it looks like these correspond to composite sync, Sense 0, Sense 1, NC, and Sense 2.

It seemed intentional, and given it is the sense lines and the composite sync signal, I'm guessing this being a newer monitor, it probably didn't do anything with the sense lines, and maybe the composite sync signal also wasn't used. Is it possible that the 6100 I was trying to use with it didn't support the resolution of the monitor so it simply didn't show the video? Any idea if there is a particular resolution / refresh rate needed for this monitor to work>

Here's the connector:



Thanks for any insight you can provide.

 

[joevt]

A monitor with no sense lines might appear as not connected (sense code 7, extended sense code 0x3f = 11 11 11). This might not matter if connected to a graphics controller that is not from a 68K Mac or PowerPC Mac.

The sense lines are used for DDC/CI and EDID on newer displays.

Maybe you need two adapters - Mac to VGA with dip switches, and VGA to Mac?

 

[wottle]

A monitor with no sense lines might appear as not connected (sense code 7, extended sense code 0x3f = 11 11 11). This might not matter if connected to a graphics controller that is not from a 68K Mac or PowerPC Mac.

The sense lines are used for DDC/CI and EDID on newer displays.

Maybe you need two adapters - Mac to VGA with dip switches, and VGA to Mac?

I will likely try to open up the case to see if there are even connections for those pins.

I hadn't thought of the dual adapters to basically replicate the sense lines. I don't have a VGA to Mac connector, but I have a female DB-15 connector from my HDI-45 adapters I could probably wire one up. I'm thinking putting the adapter in VGA/SVGA mode would be a good start?

 

[David Cook]

Most of the SuperMac video cards don't require sense lines. Instead, they rotate through a series of resolutions and ask you to press the space bar when you see an image. Then, after booting, you can use their software to pick the exact display settings you desire. The setting is then saved to PRAM.

 

[wottle]

So does this monitor require a SuperMac video card? Maybe that’s the piece I’m missing? I just tried plugging it into a Centris 605 I had nearby.

 

[David Cook]

So does this monitor require a SuperMac video card?

Not necessarily. I just wanted to alert you to that option. In fact, I think a lot of the other card manufacturers also provided methods of selecting resolutions (i.e. via a rotary dip switch) other than via the monitor sense pins.

I believe I even have a special cable that SuperMac made to allow their monitors to connect to the standard internal video. I'll go look.

 

[wottle]

Not necessarily. I just wanted to alert you to that option. In fact, I think a lot of the other card manufacturers also provided methods of selecting resolutions (i.e. via a rotary dip switch) other than via the monitor sense pins.

I believe I even have a special cable that SuperMac made to allow their monitors to connect to the standard internal video.

interesting. I didn’t realize that was a thing. Should it be able to handle 640x480 if I were to use my DA-15 adapter set to VGA mode?

Just trying to see if I can get any signs of life out of this monitor. Looks like it would be a nice one to keep as my primary CRT. But maybe not it if doesn’t work with many of the older Macs that have the DA-15 port built in.

 

[David Cook]

Here are photos of the SuperMac adapters that I presume they made to allow their monitors to work with internal video:

DB-15 female on one end. DB-15 male on the other end. They pass the video signals straight through but contain the sense wires inside the adapter itself.

Part #0007792-0001A and 0007990-0001A. The second part looks to provide a fixed resolution of 1152x870.

Make your own using a DB15 breakout board from Amazon:

https://amzn.to/4iRKdzs

I guess you'd just add a couple of wires or diodes to the little screw terminals to provide the desired monitor sense lines.

- David

 

[wottle]

I had an adapter like this I used when building out my HDI-45 adapters, except it only had the female connector, the other end had pins but they were too big to fit into the female port. So I grabbed a male connector I had and soldered on the wires and tried to make my own DA-15Male top DA15 female adapter that handled the sense lines.

Based on this page (http://rtfm.vtt.net/pinouts/data/MacVideoToVGA_pinout.shtml.htm), to get the Mac to think there is an Apple 21" Color monitor (1152 x 870), I simply needed to connect all three sense lines (pins 4,7,10) to the C&VSYNC.GND (pin 11). All the other connections I just went straight through to the corresponding pin.



I then tested it with my Quadra 700 on my test LCD and it did produce a fixed 1152x870 resolution picture. So, I took the Quadra and my hideous adapter out to the workshop and plugged it into the SuperMac monitor.... And the monitor tries to display the picture!!! Unfortunately, the image is garbled. I wonder if it is a refresh rate issue.



But all the controls seem to work (brightness and contrast on the side by the power button), size and location for vertical and horizontal underneath. I'll try fiddling with the adapter I made to see if I can put in another mode. I found this and am wondering if I'm supposed to use the 16" Apple resolution (832 x 624) or possibly the 19" resolution (1024x768) :

Q: I’m having some trouble making my Spectrum/8 Series III or Spectrum/24 Series III card work properly with my SuperMatch 17•T display. What do I need to do?​

A: You need to use a special cable adapter, model STD3592. This adapter was designed exclusively for this display and card configuration and is required to make the two devices work together. The part number for this adapter is 0008602-0001A. Later versions of the Spectrum Series III boards don’t need this adapter as long as they have the Revision F board rework for Apple 16-inch Monitors. If you need the adapter, call 800-977-7060 to order part #0008602-0001A. Supplies of this adapter were slim at last update, and it may not be available much longer.

But, I'm excited the monitor seems to be responding to input. I may just need to make an adapter to get it to work.

Thanks for the information and the idea to spoof the sense lines to get a workable adapter.

 

[David Cook]

Thanks for the information and the idea to spoof the sense lines to get a workable adapter.

That's great news! Happy to help. I'm glad you are keeping the SuperMac monitor. They aren't making any new ones. : )

 

[phunguss]

Based on this page (http://rtfm.vtt.net/pinouts/data/MacVideoToVGA_pinout.shtml.htm), to get the Mac to think there is an Apple 21" Color monitor (1152 x 870), I simply needed to connect all three sense lines (pins 4,7,10) to the C&VSYNC.GND (pin 11). All the other connections I just went straight through to the corresponding pin.

Try pinning 4 to 11, and put the diode between 7 and 10. Or maybe that SuperMac needs some work on it's internal analog board (recap?).

 

[wottle]

Yep. that was the approach I decided to go. Grabbed a diode I have for making the HDI-45 adapters and flipped it around to give 640x480 to 1024x768 resolutions. I was able to test it in the house with my LCD and all 3 resolutions worked, but initially I got no signal on the SuperMac. I tried multiple different options, eventually trying to go back to the 21" Apple Display Mode. I still got nothing. Multiple restarts of the Mac... Still no picture. Did the Monitor die between last night's test and now?

Fortunately, I remembered the age old tech support question "have you tried turning it off and back on again?". So I turned the monitor off and back on, and powered on the Mac again and I got a picture. It doesn't appear the CRT does any scaling, so the default 640x480 showed well with a large back border. I increased the resolution to 1024x768 and it filled most of the screen. I tweaked the geometry settings on the underside of the display and it's looking good. Not super bright, but still a very nice picture.

Now that I can confirm it's working, I need to improve the adapter (now that I have limited PCB design, I may try to make a custom SuperMac PCB for people like me who find themselves in need). Basically a male to female DA-15 adapter with the sense lines managed for the male connector. I have too many projects, though, and I need to clear out some room in my workshop, so that may have to wait.

Thanks, all for the help!

 

[wottle]

OK, I confirmed it also works with the dips switched around to identify as a 21" multiple scan monitor, which opens up the possibility of higher resolutions. While it won't work on this monitor, which appears to cap out at 1024x768, it may allow it to work with larger SuperMac 21" monitors at their full resolution.

So here's the adapter. Now to send them off to JLCPCB To make my monitor connection a little bit cleaner. The SuperMac case got a good cleaning and is now sitting out in the sun trying to make it a bit less orange...

I also designed a case for the PCB with a SuperMac logo:

Apparently now I'm just in the business of making obscure video adapters for devices hardly anyone owns.

 

[wottle]

PCB arrived. Got the first adapter soldered up and the 3d printed case fits perfectly. May adjust it to cover the edges of the PCB, but it keeps the important bits protected.



Haven't tested it yet, but it's a pretty simple setup with a single diode, so I expect it will work. The SuperMatch is disassembled while I try to get the case a bit less orange. Will try to test tomorrow night.

 

[wottle]

Adapter worked great.



The 3d case did not work as well, because there is very little clearance below the connector. I revised the case to remove the bottom part of the 3d case underneath the male connector that goes into the back of the Mac. For the female connector the cable from the SuperMac monitor, I moved the case a bit so it is flush with the connector on the PCB.

The adapter works great, though, and the monitor picture looks very good. Trying to decide if I'm going to keep this monitor. CRTs take up a lot of space, and I already have the 17" Apple Studio CRT and a 21" Apple Studio CRT. However, I think this monitor would be cool to hook up to the Motorola Starmax 4000 I picked up at the same time as this monitor.

I forgot to take a photo of the new case, and I ran out of black filament, so I used some translucent filament I had that I never use, so it probably won't photo real well, but here are some of the renderings. A couple of screws to hold it together. I'll be posting the PCB and 3d case to GitHub so that others can make it if necessary. I also have 4 extra PCBs if anyone needs one.