Trying to replace a dying computer

[Webecedarian]

I'm very low-tech and have no interest in upgrading for its own sake. But now it's necessary as my elderly computer is dying.

First, I'm looking for something difficult: A computer with BOTH an A-drive for 3.5 floppies and USB ports. So far, I've found that Dell had a few lines - Optiplex, Precision, Inspiron. I've found a store that has a few Optiplexes (745, 780) and Dimensions (4400,4550,,4600, GX 270). The problem is trying to motivate these guys to go to their warehouse, check the model numbers and see if they're in working condition. They're suggesting the 745 for $150, and I suppose I could find it cheaper online, but I'd prefer to buy in person.

Second, one of the things I want is the antiquated Word Perfect 5.1 DOS. I was talking to one techie who said that certain models, and certain operating systems, are inherently incompatible with WP5.1. So, any suggestions on that score? My current computer also has a more recent Corel, and it would be handy if a new one could also have Microsoft Word (which I was once told was inherently incompatible with WP DOS and couldn't be in the same computer) and maybe Excel. I've been starting to run into problems with my WP5.1 just now - where would I go to try and start afresh with a new one?

Third, ideally, I'd love to have the WP5.1, a newer Corel, Word, and Excel. Are any of them inherently incompatible? (It used to be that Word was inimical to WordPerfect.)

Please note that I am NOT a techie, so I'd appreciate simple language appropriate for, say, a 6-year-old. Please try not to mock me more than absolutely necessary.

 

[3lectr1c]

Are you aware of what is wrong with your current computer? Like even just a general description of what makes you think it's dying. Also, what model is it? Or is it a custom build? It's possible or even likely that repairing it could be as simple as swapping out the power supply inside of it, or something like that.

As for a new one - WP for DOS won't run at all on any version of Windows that's based on "Windows NT". Without being too technical, during the 1990s, there were two different "branches" of windows so to speak. There were the ones based off of DOS that could still run DOS software, like WordPerfect, and then there was Windows NT ("New Technology") that could not run DOS software. The DOS-based ones were meant for consumers and the NT-based ones were made for professionals. With Windows XP in 2001, NT became the basis for every version of Windows, so DOS support is limited to none from thereon.

So you're looking at some old Dells. The biggest issue with those era of systems you're looking at was the time they were made - 2000-2005ish. That's great for what you need - many have a floppy drive (or A drive) built in and USB, and are old enough that they can properly run DOS-based Windows, such as Windows 98. If you run Windows 98, you can still run WordPerfect, you should be able to run Corel, and Word and Excel all on the same computer. There are no limits on which you can have at a time on one computer.
So a computer from that time will fit your needs, but the problem is that they're all very unreliable. They were made during a time called the "Capacitor Plague". What this plague was is quite technical so I won't get into the gritty details, but to sum it all up simply, there's a type of component used in every computer at that time that fails rampantly, causing computers to stop working. Just about any Dell desktop computer made during that time is likely to be affected by this unfortunately, so keeping one running long-term may be a challenge. You would need someone who knows how to solder to replace these failure-prone components with new ones to keep it running. If you do that, you may be ok for a while.

Hope this helps.

 

[Volvo242GT]

I'd be tempted to get a Dell Optiplex GX series machine. Something like a GXa or a GX1 or GX Pro. They're decently built and were reliable workhorses at the time. Obviously, they will need new capacitors installed, but after that job is done, I wouldn't be surprised to see it last you a few more years. I would try to find one of the tower versions, since there's more room in the case for drives. etc. Personally owned a GX1 tower with both a 3.5" and a 5.25" floppy drive installed, plus a CD-ROM drive. Hard drive was, IIRC, a 20GB that I dual booted in XP and Linux. Had a Pentium III processor.

Basically was this machine here: https://www.lakemichigancomputers.c...tel-pentium-iii-450mhz-320mb-ram-no-hdd-no-os

 

[YMK]

You can run DOS on modern platforms with the DosBox emulator. That should let you run WP and other DOS software.

Any used computer you pick up from the 90s will probably need the same kind of work that your current machine does.

If you don't want to use an emulator, take a look at single board computers (SBCs). These are new-old computers, still made for industrial applications:

SBC1491 - Advanced 486/586 PC/104 Single Board Computer

You can run DOS and Windows on a real, brand new 486.

EDIT: This specific SBC doesn't have USB. Can the floppy drive be USB or must it be internal?

A Pentium II with Windows 98 might meet all of your requirements. If you don't mind emulation, DosBox and a USB floppy drive on a modern machine could work just as well.

 

[Webecedarian]

Thanks for all the wonderfully on-topic replies,. But, as I said, please keep it simple, without words like capacitor and emulator.

Yes, 3lectric. when I couldn't find a brand-name on mine, I was told that's because it was custom built. At the time, decades ago, I didn't want a computer, but a friend of mine who had become interested in tinkering with computers, insisted on picking up a discarded computer from a college, and handing it over, made to order, including the WP DOS (which I'd like to replace with a clean version, as it is lately been a little glitchy). I think it has Window 98. That's very discouraging about the Capacitor Plague, because apparently around 1999-2003 is exactly when the ones were made with both A-drive and ports. Since I have no way of finding a "smart enough" guy, do you consider it to be almost hopeless?

Volvo, currently the GX 270 is the only one on offer. I barely managed to find one store that had anything and, as I said, I'm still trying to coax them to actually go look in their warehouse.

Yes, YMK, I'd like the A-drive to be internal. The Dells that were mentioned to me supposedly do have A-drives in them. I'm not sure what you mean by any purchase will require the same work as my current machine. My current one worked fine for decades, and only now it unfixably dying.

 

[YMK]

Yes, YMK, I'd like the A-drive to be internal. The Dells that were mentioned to me supposedly do have A-drives in them. I'm not sure what you mean by any purchase will require the same work as my current machine. My current one worked fine for decades, and only now it unfixably dying.

The ones you're looking for have also worked for decades, so they're due for service.

Which USB devices do you use in DOS? Just keyboard and mouse?

What besides DOS productivity applications do you plan to run on this machine? Windows? Networking?

 

[3lectr1c]

I'm not sure what you mean by any purchase will require the same work as my current machine. My current one worked fine for decades, and only now it unfixably dying.

Presumably if the one you have now is running Windows 98, and you got it a couple decades ago, you got it when it wasn’t that old. Nowadays, picking up a 20 year old system isn’t going to yield the same reliability as one would have when it was just 5 or so years old. Components in all of them are dying these days. This can all be addressed with replacement parts, but yeah, it would require someone technical to do the work. If you’ve got no one you know who could do that, you’re sort of in a pickle. I get that you’d like to run your previous software still, but have you considered a modern computer? It would take some learning, yes, but will likely be better in the long run than sticking to 20 year old unreliable tech.

as for the GX270 - that model is one infamous for being affected by the capacitor plague. You’re very likely not going to get long out of one at all that hasn’t had those failure prone components replaced. Depending on your location, you could ask @AmigaOfRochester if they could do the work for you, they do these sort of repairs.

again though, I’d like to ask what exactly is up with your current system? Doesn’t have to be a technical explanation, just something as simple as “it’s not turning on sometimes” or something like that. Repairing your current one may be better than trying to find a working replacement.

 

[YMK]

Thanks for all the wonderfully on-topic replies,. But, as I said, please keep it simple, without words like capacitor and emulator.

The emulator DosBox is a program you run on a modern computer and OS to replicate an old PC, like you're currently running WordPerfect on.

It's a virtual computer within a computer.

While you can't run WP5.1 on Windows 11 directly, you can run:

WP5.1 under DOS inside of DosBox under Windows 11.

Are you looking for an old PC purely as a means to run these old programs or is having the period-correct hardware important to you?

If it's just about the software, you probably have more options than you think. You don't need antique hardware to run antique software.

You don't need an old computer for the internal floppy either because this exists.

 

[Volvo242GT]

Another option, if an internal floppy drive is a must and you don't want to use a virtual machine on a modern computer (like DOSBox), is one of the older D-series Latitude laptops made by Dell. The optical drive can be swapped with an internal floppy drive. Same with some of the earlier Inspiron laptops, like the 8500, 8600, 9100, etc. Partition the internal drive, so the main partition runs Windows 7, 10, etc, then the secondary partition has Win 95 OSR 2.1 or Win 98 SE, with MS-DOS 6.2.2.

Pretty much everything that's going to run DOS 6.2.2 natively will need a recap job, if it isn't so old that it uses the old through-hole capacitors, like what you find on an IBM 5150, 5160, etc. As people are discovering lately, most computers made from about 1989 until the 2002-2003 timeframe have the not-so-great electrolytic capacitors that decide to pee out their goop as they age on their logic boards, unless the've either been recapped, or came with tantalum capacitors from the factory.

 

[Patrick]

I'm not sure what you mean by any purchase will require the same work as my current machine.

others have already said this. but to be super clear. (and trying to help by saying the same thing in a different way)
any purchase you make today that is the same vintage as your current computer will have similar issues. Because they are are similar in age.

We can try to teach you how to do maintenance.* But we can't do the maintenance for you. Any computer of this age does need ongoing maintenance to keep running. no matter if you personally had it for a while or you get another one.

* we would love to teach you things if you are willing. We have all had to learn this stuff. and we love to spread that knowledge around. But the choice is yours.

 

[Webecedarian]

The ones you're looking for have also worked for decades, so they're due for service.

Which USB devices do you use in DOS? Just keyboard and mouse?

What besides DOS productivity applications do you plan to run on this machine? Windows? Networking?

To try to be precise, the things that are plugged in are a keyboard, mouse, and monitor - but I don't believe they are USB connections.

I'm sorry, but I don't know what you mean by "productivity applications." I currently have WP5.1 DOS and Corel Word 11. I think it's with Windows 98. I ideally would also like to have a version of Word and Excel.

 

[Webecedarian]

Presumably if the one you have now is running Windows 98, and you got it a couple decades ago, you got it when it wasn’t that old. Nowadays, picking up a 20 year old system isn’t going to yield the same reliability as one would have when it was just 5 or so years old. Components in all of them are dying these days. This can all be addressed with replacement parts, but yeah, it would require someone technical to do the work. If you’ve got no one you know who could do that, you’re sort of in a pickle. I get that you’d like to run your previous software still, but have you considered a modern computer? It would take some learning, yes, but will likely be better in the long run than sticking to 20 year old unreliable tech.

as for the GX270 - that model is one infamous for being affected by the capacitor plague. You’re very likely not going to get long out of one at all that hasn’t had those failure prone components replaced. Depending on your location, you could ask @AmigaOfRochester if they could do the work for you, they do these sort of repairs.

again though, I’d like to ask what exactly is up with your current system? Doesn’t have to be a technical explanation, just something as simple as “it’s not turning on sometimes” or something like that. Repairing your current one may be better than trying to find a working replacement.

 

[3lectr1c]

Doesn’t look like you’re message came through - just the quote.

 

[Webecedarian]

others have already said this. but to be super clear. (and trying to help by saying the same thing in a different way)
any purchase you make today that is the same vintage as your current computer will have similar issues. Because they are are similar in age.

We can try to teach you how to do maintenance.* But we can't do the maintenance for you. Any computer of this age does need ongoing maintenance to keep running. no matter if you personally had it for a while or you get another one.

* we would love to teach you things if you are willing. We have all had to learn this stuff. and we love to spread that knowledge around. But the choice is yours.

As far as I know, my only "issue" is that I have a failing IDE disk. It's at least 20 years old, and I think it only needed "maintenance" once. I could just replace it, but I'd rather take the opportunity to edge into the 21st century by having a desktop that also has USB ports.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I wasn't looking for anyone to do maintenance (unless you happen to be in the Phoenix area at the moment), nor was I asked to be taught.

I was just hoping for some guidance. For instance, are the Dell Optiplex 745 and 780 options good bets? Since the computer shop is not being particularly helpful, what questions should I be asking (and what answers should I be hoping for)? Since I would like to start afresh with a new WordPerfect WP5.1 DOS where (apart from Ebay, which I don't want) would be a good place to look? Last time around I found someone selling a set of the floppies for $10, but I doubt I'll be that lucky again. Would a store generally charge for every word processing program they install?

 

[3lectr1c]

The 780 sounds like it may be your best bet. The 745 is known to have lots of capacitor plague issues, so it isn't ideal. The 780 appears to be known for bad power supplies though. Anything of that age is going to have some known problem though.

Other issue though is that a computer that new won't be able to run Windows 98 or MS-DOS properly most likely. You'd need to migrate to something like FreeDOS, which is an updated version of DOS that works on newer computers. This however will complicate your setup process with the new computer though.

 

[YMK]

As far as I know, my only "issue" is that I have a failing IDE disk. It's at least 20 years old, and I think it only needed "maintenance" once.

Disks fail all the time. It's no reason to get rid of a computer.

You can replace the hard drive with a CompactFlash card using one of these adapters:

Amazon.com

If you haven't already, back up all of your important documents.

You should still have all of the electrolytic capacitors in the system replaced before they become a problem.

Also, unless you have a specific, compelling reason for USB in a retro system, don't bother. There's little use for USB in DOS.