Trying to ressurect a Power Macintosh 9600/350

[Genjoke]

Hi fellow tinkerers.

I got a packed Power Macintosh 9600/350 with maxed-out RAM, Sonnet accelerator, and many other PCI cards.

The only problem is that it won't start!!!

It powers up, the power button lights up, the LED in the processor's daughter card blinks, and I hear HD noises but it won't BONG or output image.

Could it be that the sound circuit is acting up? Not knowing if that's the case:

• I tried removing the extra cards and extra memory, but nothing.
• I tried changing the video card slot, but nothing.
• I tried a different video card, but nothing
• I tried a different compatible processor daughterboard, but nothing.

Does this model suffer from failing capacitors?

Should I try recapping it?

Any other ideas?

As always, thanks for any suggestions and help!

 

[eric]

Have you tried resetting the PRAM and pushing the CUDA button on the motherboard? 9600's are really picky about bad state in NVRAM when booting.

Sometimes a power on then a quick power off and power on again can help get out of this state too.

I would remove all RAM and keep swapping till you find a pair that works. Very picky about RAM. Once you find one that works add another pair and use Tech Tool 3.6 to boot and test.

Edit: Also an un-terminated internal SCSI bus will cause it to hang at a gray screen (but still bong I believe)

 

[Genjoke]

Have you tried resetting the PRAM and pushing the CUDA button on the motherboard? 9600's are really picky about bad state in NVRAM when booting.

Sometimes a power on then a quick power off and power on again can help get out of this state too.

I would remove all RAM and keep swapping till you find a pair that works. Very picky about RAM. Once you find one that works add another pair and use Tech Tool 3.6 to boot and test.

Edit: Also an un-terminated internal SCSI bus will cause it to hang at a gray screen (but still bong I believe)

I did everything you said and its now bonging but no Video yet! But thats a start

 

[eric]

Video can take a long time to show up. Do a quick reset via keyboard to try to skip any tests. Change out the RAM. Leave it sit for a lot longer than you think you should.

 

[Genjoke]

Video can take a long time to show up. Do a quick reset via keyboard to try to skip any tests. Change out the RAM. Leave it sit for a lot longer than you think you should.

What is this "quick reset via keyboard"? A specific key combo?

 

[eric]

Command option power key I think? On my phone so hard to lookup atm.

 

[Kai Robinson]

Ah, what slot do you have the video card in? They're VERY picky about that.

 

[This Does Not Compute]

Something simple to try first: Put in a new PRAM battery.

 

[3lectr1c]

I don't believe the 9600 is one of the ones that needs a working PRAM battery to function. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Genjoke]

Something simple to try first: Put in a new PRAM battery.

I did. I’m using a coin battery adapter from Silicon Insider.

Ah, what slot do you have the video card in? They're VERY picky about that.

I moved it all around I think it ended up in slot 2

Command option power key I think? On my phone so hard to lookup atm.

Command ctrl power I’ve found it.

I’ll try all your suggestions tomorrow as I left it at work

 

[Genjoke]

Update: I got a consisting "bong situation":

• RAM slots 1 and 7 populated
• The original video card in slot 1 -- ATI ©1996 -- I dunno the exact model

If I try to put my other video card (ATi Radeon 7000 ©2002) alone on slot 1 the Mac won't bong.

I tried the 7000 along the original (slot 1), in slot 2 (no bong) and 4, bong but no video nevertheless.

Every time it bongs I can use the ⌘-control-power combo to force it to restart.

However, I think the system is not booting as I can't press power and then return to shut it down.

If I remove the Sonnet G4 CPU and put my untested XLR8 G3/G4 carrier in, I get the bong and then the shattering glass sound (I suppose that's the "sad Mac" version of this system).

I'd love to put my hands on an ORIGINAL PPC CPU. As far as I loved the processor upgrade back then, now, from a collector's perspective, I like the machines as close as possible to the original. Unfortunately getting vintage Mac parts on my corner of the planet is almost impossible and eBay rips me off on courier shipping . But that's another problem.

I will halt now and take my 7200 out of storage to check the video cards.

 

[Genjoke]

I just tested both videocards on my Power Macintosh 7200.

The one originally on the 9600 is really dead;

The Radeon 7000 works fine.

If it works on the 7200, it should also work on the 9600, shouldn't it?

I'll toss the original videocard out of the equation and keep trying with the Radeon 7000.

 

[V.Yakob]

Hey!

@Genjoke, I have a PM9600/300 and Radeon 7000 64 Mb works perfectly with this computer.
I have several boards installed in this order:
1. Wi-Fi Cisco Airpci 350
2. 2-pots USB card
3. Radeon 7000 64 Mb
4. Empty
5. Jackhummer SCSI-Card
6. Empty

I also tried to use a SATA Card on the Sil3112 chip -- it works, but conflicts with Jackhummer. Later I found out that this conflict is reproduced on any Mac. The initialization of the machine hangs immediately after the bong.

Have you tried to pull out all the RAM sticks and use only one or even use another memory? The shattering glass sound may mean incompatible or faulty memory that the motherboard detects during initialization. I had similar oddities on MDD when the memory suitable for parameters and working in other non-Mac computers did not work in MDD, and I received the shattering glass sound.

I don't have a processor update yet, but I have to get the MAXpowr G4 350 Mhz card for the processor soon, and I'll check how it works.
I also have big problems with shopping on eBay, but I adapted somehow.

 

[trag]

On a PowerTower Pro I've seen similar symptoms when a PCI arbiter chip wasn't soldered properly -- or rather the solder had failed for some reason. Resoldering fixed it. The Bandit Arbiter is a little 28 pin PLCC labeled 343S0182.

I have not seen this particular issue on the 9500/9600. It may be that PCC's factory didn't solder as well.

But they're essentially the same boards.

Anyway, there are two 343S0182 on these boards. I'd check the one associated with the upper Bandit. Well, really, best to check both of them.

It sounds like the board may be almost booting and then failing some time during PCI initialization. If there are no cards in the lower three slots, then the lower arbiter shouldn't matter.

The more software'y guys might have some suggestions about setting Open Firmware to Verbose through the Serial console and watching the progress to see when it stops.

 

[V.Yakob]

@trag, I once used debug mode to boot Mac OS 9 to MDD. But for this you need to get the image output on the monitor

dev /
13fff encode-int " AAPL,debug" property
mac-boot

or nanokernel debug log

dev /
2000000 encode-int " AAPL,debug"  property
mac-boot

 

[trag]

@trag, I once used debug mode to boot Mac OS 9 to MDD. But for this you need to get the image output on the monitor

On the original PCI PowerMacs the OF dialog is sent to one (both?) of the serial ports. So another Mac with terminal program should enable interaction with OF even if the Macintosh in question cannot produce video output.

 

[Genjoke]

On the original PCI PowerMacs the OF dialog is sent to one (both?) of the serial ports. So another Mac with terminal program should enable interaction with OF even if the Macintosh in question cannot produce video output.

Correct me if I’m wrong: I can get a Mac LC or a Mac classic to listen to the 9600 serial port during start up using a terminal program?

How would I configure the terminal? What would be the correct baud rate?

 

[trag]

Correct me if I’m wrong: I can get a Mac LC or a Mac classic to listen to the 9600 serial port during start up using a terminal program?

How would I configure the terminal? What would be the correct baud rate?

Correct on the first sentence.

For second and third, you just ran past the limits of my knowledge. I know that OF output defaults to the serial port. Beyond that, you'll need to get one of the more software'y guys to answer.

Or just post a new thread with a subject similar to Terminal Settings for Open Firmware Via Serial Port

 

[V.Yakob]

@Genjoke, @trag, That's interesting. I didn't know about such an opportunity, it would be interesting to try.

 

[dramirez]

Any progress @Genjoke