Upgrading IIsi onboard RAM to 4MB

Zane Kaminski

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The Mac IIsi motherboard is wired for a 1 MB onboard RAM array using eight 256kx4 DRAM chips or a 4 MB RAM array using eight 1Mx4 chips. After discovering this on my broken IIsi, I was able to simply replace the eight RAM chips with larger 1Mx4 RAMs (e.g. KM44C1000, M5M44400, MT4C4001) and get 4 MB of onboard RAM. No bodge wires required--the extra address pin used on the larger RAM chips was wired in the motherboard, evidently in anticipation of a possible 4 MB model.

My original post:
I've got a broken IIsi which turns on but plays death chimes. Presumably the issue is bad onboard RAM so I've got some 256kx4 DRAM chips on the way. While taking the old RAM chips off, I realized that since the pinout for 256kx4 and 1Mx4 DRAM is basically the same, you could potentially upgrade the IIsi's soldered RAM bank A to 4 MB. Solder the 1Mx4 chips on the existing footprints then hook up A9 on the RAMs (NC on the smaller chips) to the MDU memory controller.

Whether this is of any practical benefit is dubious... Everyone says to spend the onboard 1 MB on disk cache so that your programs don't run from the "vampire video" RAM bank A. Should I try it or is it nuts since it's just gonna make the machine slower?
 
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Zane Kaminski

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Huh, the IIsi is actually wired to accept a 4 MB onboard RAM array on the same footprints. The extra A9 address line is wired up from the MDU to the RAM even though it’s not used.
I vote for try it. But I'm always in favor of more soldering...
Alright, I’ll do it. We’ll see how it turns out.
 

trag

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Huh, the IIsi is actually wired to accept a 4 MB onboard RAM array on the same footprints. The extra A9 address line is wired up from the MDU to the RAM even though it’s not used.
That's wonderful. I guess the designers put in the extra versatility and let the marketing folks decide how to populate it.
 

Zane Kaminski

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Put the 1Mx4 DRAM chips on, still death chimes. Damn! I was hoping it’d work. Now I don’t know whether the 4 MB VRAM array doesn’t work or whether the board is bad in some other way. 68k bus must be working since otherwise it couldn't death chime.

The interesting thing is that after I removed the soldered RAM chips, I started the machine and I think it successfully tested the RAM in bank B but of course there was no video so I'm not sure. So maybe there's a short or bad chip on the bank A data bus? On to replacing the four 74ALS245s between the 68k data bus and the bank A data bus...
 
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Patrick

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i think it would be neat to try it. would love to know if one could expand the onboard ram that way.
its not like the disk cache trick-thingy helped the IIsi that much anyway. That is, without using tests, just real world usage. i doubt one could really tell if its Slow or really slow.

edit. i've had this post up to reply like only an hour after OP posted. but i keep coming back to my computer not posted ? not sure if i forgot to hit submit or it just didn't submit.
 
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trag

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edit. i've had this post up to reply like only an hour after OP posted. but i keep coming back to my computer not posted ? not sure if i forgot to hit submit or it just didn't submit.

I've done that many times -- forget to hit "Post reply". I get such a feeling of accomplishment from finishing my thought coherently (I hope) that it never occurs to me that I need to hit the submit button. Or maybe the cat distracts me a critical moment....
 

Zane Kaminski

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Replaced the four ‘ALS245s and still death chimes. I’ll have to go through everything related to the RAM bank A with a multimeter to check for continuity
 

Zane Kaminski

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Woohoo! Found the problem and put a bodge wire, now the system works and shows 4 MB of RAM!
B9118B28-EEB0-4C0A-A1A5-A4D38C99EACF.jpegD42A01DC-FBC6-4E52-B302-054E5287DFE4.jpeg

Gonna remove the crappy bodge, put 74F245 buffers to make it more “authentic” than these AHCT parts I threw on, clean the board, then Garrett is gonna put a neater wire taped down to the board with kapton.
 

rdmark

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@Zane Kaminski Did you get around to benchmarking whether this mod had a measurable negative performance impact or not?

As per the IIsi RAM-Muncher readme, applications loaded into the on-board RAM will run slower, since the CPU shares that memory with the video circuitry. Hence, logically if there's more on-board RAM, more applications will be loaded into that memory, and run slower. I could be mistaken, though!

I was thinking about trying out the same mod on my half-working IIsi (which I suspect has marginal RAM) but wanted to make sure it's not a path to getting a worse-performing system. :)
 

Zane Kaminski

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@Zane Kaminski Did you get around to benchmarking whether this mod had a measurable negative performance impact or not?

As per the IIsi RAM-Muncher readme, applications loaded into the on-board RAM will run slower, since the CPU shares that memory with the video circuitry. Hence, logically if there's more on-board RAM, more applications will be loaded into that memory, and run slower. I could be mistaken, though!

I was thinking about trying out the same mod on my half-working IIsi (which I suspect has marginal RAM) but wanted to make sure it's not a path to getting a worse-performing system. :)
Yeah, the machine will definitely be slower in some cases and I would not make this modification if I was interested in obtaining the maximum speed. My motivation was just curiosity. As for benchmarking, I am pretty skeptical of the sort of "semi-synthetic" benchmarks that are often used on these Macs... Speedometer, etc. The meaning of the "CPU score" they come up with is not clear. In my opinion, assigning a lot of importance to that kind of result obfuscates the specifics of the speed question. I could conceive of a useful synthetic benchmark that would be almost completely unaffected by running from the "vampire video" RAM and another benchmark in which the IIsi would be half as fast.

What I can say with certainty is that at 640x480, 66.67 Hz refresh rate, 8-bit color, it takes 20.5 MB/sec of memory bandwidth to display video. Unencumbered by video accesses (i.e. with video disabled or using bank B), the IIsi reads from memory at the rate of one cache line (16 bytes) per 11 20 MHz '030 clock cycles or 29.1 MB/sec. The breakdown of the 11 clocks figure is 5 clocks to read the initial longword, then 2 clocks each to read the subsequent three longwords. Obviously with video enabled there's going to be some degradation of the maximum 29.1 MB/sec bandwidth, although probably not by 20.5 MB/sec. The RBV must be faster at accessing the RAM than the '030 but by how much? One useful synthetic benchmark would be to measure the actual RAM transfer speed with video enabled but we can estimate...

The RBV video chip runs from the same 40 MHz clock as the IIsi chipset so maybe it can do a burst access with a peak rate of one longword per two or three 40 MHz cycles, as opposed to one longword per four 40 MHz cycles (i.e. two 20 MHz cycles) as is the case for the '030. And maybe there is also a shorter initial access latency, maybe more like 5-10 clocks at 40 MHz instead of 10 cycles in the case of the '030. And maybe the RBV does a burst of more than four longwords (16 bytes) at once. Maybe it reads eight longwords per burst. So assuming 8 longwords (32 bytes) per burst but calculating over the range of 2-3 cycles per burst access and 4-10 clocks for the initial access, the bandwidth available to the RBV is in the range of 37-61 MB/sec. Therefore the 20.5 MB/sec video requires between 33.6 to 54.4% of the bank A memory bandwidth.

Consequently, with video enabled the '030's read bandwidth from bank A is reduced from 29.1 MB/sec to something in the range of 13.2 to 19.3 MB/sec. This analysis doesn't consider RAM refresh but its impact is pretty minor, just 2% or so. What impact does this have on performance? It's like the SE/30 vs. Classic II thing. Some apps are more affected, some less. Since '030 has internal caches the performance impact depends on the application's need for memory bandwidth that can't be provided by the cache. Moreover, a lot of the Mac OS is in ROM which is totally unaffected by the problem, although ROM bandwidth in the IIsi is somewhat slow (~16 MB/sec) anyway because the ROM can't do a burst access like the RAM.

So long story short, I wouldn't make the mod unless you really want to or have spare of 1Mx4 DRAM chips around (as opposed to the 256kx4 chips that came on the IIsi).
 
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imactheknife

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hey question, know the post is old. My ram slots give me the death chime when ram is in. when ram is pulled it works fine. Onboard ram is not enough to really boot any good os, maybe 6?? anyways, board is clean and recapped. anything I could check for? or maybe just upgrade on board ram?? what chips were you able to pull ram off of?
 

Trash80toG4

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Have you tried a different set of SIMMs yet?

The answer to most problems with the IIsi would be a Video Card, just don't plug anything into the Vampire Video's DA-15 fangs. Output from it is crap to begin with and for that it screws up memory.
 
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Zane Kaminski

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hey question, know the post is old. My ram slots give me the death chime when ram is in. when ram is pulled it works fine. Onboard ram is not enough to really boot any good os, maybe 6?? anyways, board is clean and recapped. anything I could check for? or maybe just upgrade on board ram?? what chips were you able to pull ram off of?
I'd check all of the address bus, data bus, RAM bank A address, and RAM bank A control signals for continuity using a multimeter. You can refer to the Bomarc schematics, then use the multimeter in diode/continuity mode and make sure all of the connections "beep." This was how I found the issue on my IIsi with the onboard RAM bank.

As for what to replace the onboard RAM with, try this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/112717772316

$20 shipped for 25 chips but that's a bit too many since you only need 8. This guy huskerfan42011 is pretty good. I've bought from him many times before. So maybe you can message him make a deal for just eight or ten.

However!!! If you only use onboard RAM, the IIsi will slow down to approximately LC II speeds. So I really don't recommend the mod. Since the onboard RAM also feeds the video output, putting other stuff in the RAM means the CPU has to share the RAM bandwidth with the video. It's best to keep the onboard RAM 1 MB and then put a larger amount in the slots.