JDW

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All of us who have done the 68.4V "VGA Mod" on our Mac Color Classic ANALOG BOARDS know that you must change the SENSE LINES, and that involves ISOLATING pin-25. I did that, along with @Branchus and @Kay K.M.Mods and countless other people through the years, and none of us have any problems doing it the same way. But while preparing for my forthcoming video on the 84v 13" Hi-rez mod conversion, I discovered something I hadn't thought about before. And honestly, I don't think anyone has!

Have a look at the sense line mod area on the bottom of the ANALOG BOARD in my marked-up photo below...

1755332323815.png

(The board above is Rev. C.)

When doing the VGA Mod, we remove the 0Ω resistor at J78 (on boards that have it) in order to isolate pin-20 from Ground. (For the 84V 13" High Resolution mod, we move that 0Ω resistor (jumper) from J78 to J79, which effectively ties pin-20 to +5v.) The VGA Mod also requires isolating pin-25, but closely examine the width of the trace leading to pin-25. Ponder that trace-width deeply.

Specifically, note how incredibly thick that GND trace is leading to pin-25. Sure, it narrows going up to pin 25, but it then widens at the GND rail. That GND rail branches off along the edge of the PCB to feed GND to 4 other pins.

When doing the 68.4V VGA Mod, we are told that pin-25 must be isolated, and indeed it must be, but there are implications to that. In order to isolate it, we are all told to cut above and below pin-25. And truly, there is no other way to isolate pin 25. But consider this. When you cut out pin 25, that thick GND trace no longer feeds GND to the 4 pins!

Pin-32 is probably not affected because it leads to RS6, and those pads are empty. But what of pins 18, 36 and 38?

On the component side of the ANALOG BOARD there is a metal shield hiding the components, and I didn't want to bend the twisted feet on the solder side to get it off, so I cannot check the connections on top of my CC Analog Board. I can only assume that one of those pins must be tied to ground elsewhere (at the motherboard), otherwise, if pin-25 was the only GND source, pins 18, 36 and 38 would be left floating.

Unwilling to give up, I search for another 2 hours and then remembered Kay Koba's blog. Very useful! The photo below was found on this blog page, where Kay shows the LC575 Analog Board converted for use in his CC, and he has that metal cover removed on the component side, revealing not much other than a single yellow tantalum capacitor near the power pins, and the rest are just metal staple jumpers. The CC Analog Board is quite similar, so I have little doubt it is probably about the same as shown below. In other words, see that isn't helpful to know how pins 18, 32, 36 and 38 are affected when pin 25 is fully isolated and GND is cut-off to that GND rail.

1755338702024.png



Any thoughts?


Some of you may wonder why this even matters, and the reason is because when switching from the VGA Mod to the 84V Mod, you have to put pin-25 back the way it was before. It's easy to ground Pin-25 by soldering a short wire to the adjacent pin (pin 26) that once fed GND to it. But it also seems logical to reconnect the other side of pin-25 too, so that GND rail feeds pins 18, 32, 36 & 38 again. Rather than scraping off the green UV solder mask and soldering a wire from pin-25 to that GND rail, it would be easier to just solder a wire from pin-25 to pin-32. Soldering pin-26 to pin-32 would accomplish the same thing. Yeah, the trace leading from pin-32 to the GND rail is thin, but when you consider that isolating pin-25 cut off all GND to the GND rail, and yet everything still worked fine, soldering a GND wire to pin-32 to feed the GND rail probably will suffice.

And if you're wondering if I have consulted the partial (and very INCOMPLETE) Analog Board PCB layout found here, the answer is yes, and I even put pin numbers on it for clarity. But "incomplete" is the key word here. Note the mistake it makes below by not drawing a white line from the GND rail to pin 32. So in light of that oversight, I cannot really trust that PCB layout, and it doesn't show me anything helpful anyway.

1755335769826.png
 

Paolo B

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Below my take: I just desoldered and removed pins 20 and 25.
It did work. Until today, when after many months and a intercontinental relocation in between, I restarted my Mystic for the first time.
This time at 220V. A suspicious “pop” at the start up as the machine got energized and the display now looks messed up.
Don’t know if this has anything to do with the modification in combination with 220 V, though.
At a first glance, the neck board has what seems to me as a blown capacitor, any advice is more than appreciated.

IMG_0004.jpeg
IMG_0002.jpeg
IMG_0005.jpeg
IMG_0006.jpeg
 
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JDW

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DV means diode, and I think I see the Cathode line marking on the side closest to that DV11 silkscreen.

Determining the type of diode and its part number is crucial for replacement.

I see that @Mu0n has a nice photo here:
@MuOn, would you know the value of that DV11 diode?

I see a partial description in the CC Analog Board Parts List here (keyword search for DV11 to jump to it):

I told ChatGPT it's an SMD diode with "BGF (possibly E, not F?) 1G G1" and asked it to research what it might be. It came back saying this:

1755440541688.png



@Paolo B , could you explain how you removed pins 20 & 25 entirely? If you have the metal shield removed on the component side of the board, I love to see a photo of that area.

I also see that you have an analog board which is missing J78 & J79, so how you must treat the Sense Lines depends on which VGA mod you have. Do you have the 68.4 V version or the 84V 13” Hi-Rez version?

I have to start my work day early tomorrow so I'm off to bed, but I hope the above helps a little.
 
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Paolo B

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DV means diode, and I think I see the Cathode line marking on the side closest to that DV11 silkscreen.

could you explain how you removed pins 20 & 25 entirely? If you have the metal shield removed on the component side of the board, I love to see a photo of that area.

I also see that you have an analog board which is missing J78 & J79, so how you must treat the Sense Lines depends on which VGA mod you have. Do you have the 68.4 V version or the 84V 13” Hi-Rez version?

Thanks for the feedback and the support.

DV11 is a diode, sure. At a closer inspection it seems to be labelled "BGF 1G G1".

As for the pins 20 and 25, stupidly I did not document the process. However, please see in the picture how it looks from the back, underneath the metal cage. Both pins desoldered and lifted (yes, I had to desolder the entire connector, this much I do remember), plus a bridge.

Concerning the modification, I went for the basic 68.4 V one. Everything worked fine for quite some time, until today.

79CADF96-C4A0-4764-8E1C-23DAF455F60C_1_201_a.jpeg


1755449603662.jpg
 

JDW

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Wow! The fact you desoldered that entire connector is incredible!

I really must go to work now, but I just wanted to post a little extra for you, so you have something to ponder.

The book Doping Mac, which @Kay K.M.Mods sells and recommended to me, shows that when doing the 84V 13" Hi-Rez Mod on boards like yours WITHOUT the J78/J79 jumper pair, a pull-up resistor must be used as follows:

1755468078268.png


But you are NOT using the 84V mod but instead using the 68.4V VGA mod, which means you DO NOT use that 4.7kΩ resistor at all and instead isolate pin-20 (which it seems you have done), and then connect Pin-20 to Pin-24 with a jumper wire, which seems like you have done based on your photo here...

1755468208079.png


Hmmm...


I took the photo posted on the MLA by @Mu0n and flipped the left side photo horizontally in order to identify pin numbers on that yoke connector, which you can see as follows:

1755467759356.png


So the Anode of that DV11 diode connects to pin-11 and the Cathode connects to a thick trace that leads to pin-13 and many other places.

Alas! I must go to work now and must defer thoughts to later. For now, I guess the important question is this: Is that DV11 diode burned or otherwise really bad? Or is it something else? Because your latest photo of that diode clearly shows its 3 lines of text, and it doesn't look burned in that photo...

1755468336500.png


Also, I'm pondering what you said here...

It did work. Until today... I restarted my Mystic for the first time. This time at 220V. A suspicious “pop” at the start up as the machine got energized and the display now looks messed up.

Even though the CC was designed to work on 100VAC or 120VAC or 220VAC, I suspect the higher voltage may put more strain on the CC’s aging components. So we cannot necessarily say if the VGA Mod you have installed is the root cause.

What lead you to remove and open the Yoke Board and then spot Diode DV11? Did you inspect the Analog Board fully, find nothing, then open the Yoke Board as a last resort?

Your diode looks like it might be bad in your first photo, but then in your zoomed-in photo showing the markings, it looks fine. I’m afraid the only way to know if that diode is bad would be to desolder and check it with a meter set to diode check. But you would then need to take great care to solder it back with the Cathode line going in the same direction as before.

If you did not check your Analog Board fully, note the degauss component is there to remove discolorations, and you have discolorations. There’s a screen capture from my last video…

1755478466393.png


Do you hear the normal noises when you press the Power Key on your keyboard?
When I do that on my CC, I hear a static like sound just before the CRT lights up.
 
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Paolo B

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Wow! The fact you desoldered that entire connector is incredible!

Thanks for you support, I really appreciate it!

Desoldering the whole connector has not been particularly difficult, even with a basic desoldering station like the one I have.
I just wanted to avoid altering the board, so I figured out the least invasive solution possible.

As for the current issue, I immediately noticed that even before the start up chime, almost instantly as I pressed the power button on the keyboard, a suspicious "pop" came out loud. To the point I was expecting nothing to appear on the screen. Luckily - so to speak - this has not been the case, but still some damage occurred.

As I couldn't see any visibly damaged component on the analog board (beyond the almost charred board behind the overheating resistors and diodes), I checked the CRT neck board noticing this overheated (damaged?) diode.

I now checked the degaussing item you highlight, seems to be OK, at least I could not spot any visible damage.

I need unfortunately to set this project aside for a few weeks, so for the moment being I can't run any further check.