What is the most dependable, long last compact mac?

[winters]

Hey all, so just a silly question I was thinking about today, what compact mac would you pick as the most long lasting? From my understanding, before the SE there were no internal fans so the components were more likely to get hot, thus degrade. The SE is decent and doesnt have all the same leaky caps that the SE/30 does on its logic board. The classic seems to be tighter and have less components overall, which to me, would mean less chances of failure. What do you all think? I understand all these machines need some maintenance over time but if you could pick one that needed the least amount, which would it be? Thanks!

 

[Zane Kaminski]

My thoughts:

• 128k - Digital board is pretty reliable except for the RAM. Old Micron, TI, and Apple-branded (made by Micron I think) RAM on the digital board often fails. Replacement with newer 64k DRAM chips solves the problem. Analog board tends to break due to heat issues. Flyback transformer on the analog board is weak.
• 512k - Digital board is very reliable. Same issues with analog board as the 128k.
• Plus - Same as 512k.
• SE - Digital board is very reliable, analog board reliability improved but not perfect. The SE analog board uses a different, heavier-duty flyback transformer which is less likely to break. It also has a fan which helps to keep the analog board cool. A (typically) Sony-brand power supply replaces the low-voltage power supply part of the analog board. I have seen some broken Sony PSUs from these but they generally work.
• SE/30 - Same analog board as SE. Digital board has surface-mounted capacitors which always leak. These early surface-mounted caps don't have great heat tolerance. The theory is that they were all damaged by the surface-mount oven reflow process. They slowly leak out the cap goop electrolyte over the course of 30 years, ruining the board. Replacing the surface-mounted capacitors on the digital board is a must on the SE/30. Through-hole caps on the digital board are probably fine.
• Classic - Mac Classic is a cost-reduced Mac SE. It has the same main chips on the motherboard as the SE but in a smaller board size and using surface-mount packages for the RAM, CPU, etc. instead of through-hole. Other than the use of surface-mount chips instead of through-hole, the chips and system architecture are exactly the same on the Classic as the SE. Classic's analog board is much improved over SE and SE/30. Unfortunately the digital board suffers from the surface-mount cap issues as the SE/30 so the digital board must be recapped, unlike the SE which has only through-hole caps.

I don't know that much about Classic II, Color Classic, etc. so I can't say anything definitive about these.

I'd say the most reliable models are the SE, SE/30, and Classic, but only if you replace the caps on the digital board (not applicable to SE). The 128k-Plus analog boards, even if fully refurbished with a new flyback and whatnot, tend to break themselves again because of heat issues. If you want a machine that's likely to boot up without any refurbishment, I'd wager on an SE. SE/30 and Classic have the cap goop issue and the 128k-Plus analog boards have the heat issue.

 

[ScutBoy]

I would also go with the SE.

The biggest problem with them is the internal SCSI hard drives are most always failed. In these days of BlueSCSI/SCSI2SD/RASCSI that's not as hard to overcome as trying to find a working SCSI drive.

 

[retr01]

Back in the day, the Mac Plus was the longest compact Mac on the market. Nowadays, for any compact Mac, proper recapping helps with longevity. Using BlueSCSI, SCSI2SD, or MacSCSI are reasonable mass storage longevity solutions. Furthermore, modern parts such as reloaded boards, memory sticks, ROM sticks or chips, and even the upcoming new accelerators, video cards, and hopefully NICs will also help.

Cheers!

 

[lilliputian]

A Plus, especially a later one which has better components on the analogue board, is pretty reliable, especially if you can get a fan attachment, or mod one in. If you have an earlier Plus, and it's otherwise functioning, I highly recommend following the guidance in Macintosh Repair & Upgrade Secrets for upgrading components. Excepting the flyback (which will be expensive and hard to find these days), everything else shouldn't be too difficult to source. C1, the bipolar capacitor, if it's not at least 100V-rated, can be replaced with an equivalent film capacitor.

 

[Volvo242GT]

^Yep. Either a PlatPlus or a regular SE would be best... For an SE, I'd probably go with a FDHD or SuperDrive model. That way, it does have some forward compatibility, while still being able to run software that'll run on a 128K (barring those pieces of software that *must* run on a 128K only) or 512K.

 

[LongAlphabet]

"Classic's analog board is much improved over SE and SE/30. "

Hmm, respectfully, I've heard the opposite about the Classic's analog board. It's my understanding that the Classic (and Classic II) analog board is worse than most of the other 68K Macs, and will need to be recapped.

In addition, the analog board produces more issues as the power flows from the PSU to the analog board, and then to the logic board. If caps on the analog board are going, it'll affect the logic board too. Solution? Recapping both the analog and logic boards is a solution for the Classic and Classic II. (I own both, and both are getting tender care from @Drake )

In terms of chiming in about reliable computers, every Mac Plus I've owned, I can flick on, and it's just turned on over the years! Floppy drive issues, sure, but the computer just seems to work otherwise!

 

[Drake]

Hmm, respectfully, I've heard the opposite about the Classic's analog board. It's my understanding that the Classic (and Classic II) analog board is worse than most of the other 68K Macs, and will need to be recapped.

In addition, the analog board produces more issues as the power flows from the PSU to the analog board, and then to the logic board. If caps on the analog board are going, it'll affect the logic board too. Solution? Recapping both the analog and logic boards is a solution for the Classic and Classic II. (I own both, and both are getting tender care from @Drake )

In terms of chiming in about reliable computers, every Mac Plus I've owned, I can flick on, and it's just turned on over the years! Floppy drive issues, sure, but the computer just seems to work otherwise!

And now that my extended family has vacated my house I can finally finish the backlog of repairs!

Vintage Mac's are like classic cars, they'll play nice if you do the preventative maintenance.

 

[retr01]

Vintage Mac's are like classic cars, they'll play nice if you do the preventative maintenance.

How do I make my SE/30 go vrroom vvrrooom? Add the 030 PDS booster that @max1zzz is working on? I am sure that @Kay K.M.Mods Satanic SE/666 roars.

I agree with you, @Drake. The same is true for the Apple II series.

 

[max1zzz]

Add the 030 PDS booster that @max1zzz is working on?

Unfortunately that one is a no-go, looks like the design is not a universal as I was hoping it would be (Causes some eintertaining chimes of death when installed in a IIcx). Still have a couple of in the works variants of that card though (pending compatibility and if I can find a nice way in install it in one of the target mac's)

 

[retr01]

Unfortunately that one is a no-go, looks like the design is not a universal as I was hoping it would be (Causes some eintertaining chimes of death when installed in a IIcx). Still have a couple of in the works variants of that card though (pending compatibility and if I can find a nice way in install it in one of the target mac's)

Ah. Yeah. If the device manager doesn't see it and the Mac doesn't like it, that is a problem. Have you reviewed Apple's designing drivers and cards for the 68030 Macs book?