BlueBird-SD-Module: a boutique build for BlueSCSI in Blackbirds?

[Trash80toG4]

Came up with this one while not quite awake this morning and spent the rest of wakeup, morning musings over coffee thinking about it. So of course I spent my afternoon in paper/cardboard cutout mockup play. I've been told few can parse my .TXT descriptions, so was this a waste of time?

Custom BlueSCSI build plonks down onto the HDD cable connector. Printed, kissy-lipped module/chassis holds everything in place. The Blackbird I never wanted is now targeted for development of an exclusive, removable SD card implementation?

Genesis of this would be a tangent here:

https://tinkerdifferent.com/threads/blackbird-pcmcia-module-worth-setting-out-on-a-clone-quest.1709/post-13927

Market would be small. But then again, Blackbird folks seem to be at least half as crazy about their 'Books as the CC, TAM and SE/30 crowds are about upgrading their favorite toys. HDD bay is opened up for a WiFi project? Located the perfect spot for the internal antenna if and when.

So is this concept interesting or yet another addition to the list of crazy/silly notions of mine?

 

[Fizzbinn]

I think it's very interesting, put the battery bay to use!

I do wonder if it wouldn't be easier to use an existing Powerbook BlueSCSI (thanks @Androda) and a micro SD extension like this: https://www.amazon.com/SING-LTD-Extension-Flexible-Extender/dp/B07KVT2P3F

 

[This Does Not Compute]

If it helps, here's a dummy battery model I designed for the PB 500 series. Maybe it could be modified to hold a BlueSCSI board?

 

[Trash80toG4]

I think it's very interesting, put the battery bay to use!

Thanks, glad to hear I'm not totally off my rocker ATM.

I do wonder if it wouldn't be easier to use an existing Powerbook BlueSCSI (thanks @Androda) and a micro SD extension like this: https://www.amazon.com/SING-LTD-Extension-Flexible-Extender/dp/B07KVT2P3F

I've always thought about that, but bought one and don't much care for it. I've heard they're not all that reliable and the card only slips into it. My notion would be to use a real SD socket with push-to-click-ejection of the SD card so it stays put.

I've yet to buy any current SD adapters. Lack of money and a good investment in a batch of Savvio SCA Drives and several still working SCSI drives have kept my toys happy. Many of my victims have IDE, so CF adapters work for the rest of my needs. There's an AztecMonster in a recapped PB100 I snapped up, but that's it.

 

[Trash80toG4]

@This Does Not Compute thanks for that link. I guess we'd need to add the nubbins I've indicated to hold the assembly in place. Development of the kissy-lipped cover plate should be fun for somebody?

Dunno anything about BlueSCSI really, would adding a teensy USB port to the custom board so a cable could be plugged into the design be a good idea/ Thinking a vertical port in an indent that mimics the battery latch would be a good place to put it.

 

[retr01]

Oh yeah, @Trash80toG4, that would be a good use of that wasted space. @This Does Not Compute's 3D model, the dummy battery, could be a good start as an SD SCSI housing. The housing would need to be open at the top, not enclosed, and have the right slot and openings as required per the cardboard model concept.

I know that one of @Androda's specialties is BlueSCSI F4 for PowerBooks and may have some ideas.

 

[Trash80toG4]

The module will need to be stationary, installed before reassembling the base unit which is held in place by strategically located nubbins. I cut the opening for the battery contacts only because the bend line of the mockup at that point was too deep in the well. Design should clear the battery contacts.

 

[Androda]

For what it's worth, the Molex micro SD slot I've been using for awhile isn't a click-and-lock style but I've never had an SD card fall out. My test models have gone through many many card insertion cycles with no issues.

Moving the connector around on the PCB certainly isn't the hard part here, the hard part is probably the 3d model that holds everything in place.

If you want internal wifi, the RaSCSI project will give you a hard drive and wifi together. The raspberry pi component is just very expensive currently. And I don't know if there's a powerbook style "hat" board for it - maybe I should make one.

If there were enough extra pins on bluescsi, I think it would be possible to interface an SPI wifi/Ethernet module. Don't think there are enough pins though. Want to avoid shared SPI, that comes with a very large performance penalty.

 

[Trash80toG4]

Wasn't talking about or critical of your connector choice at all, slip-in is just fine for standard use.

Pucker factor for an SD card sticking out the side of a Blackbird is something else entirely! I have a slip-in socket on my current Notebook with a goodly portion of the card poking out the lower front of the case. Not good, both my NetBooks had/have proper stay in place with a click correctness.

Blackbird has networking built into it so there's no need for the SCSI bottleneck. Might Pi Zero with WiFi or the like suffice to bridge the gap between AAUI and an antenna?

Everything about this is way above my pay grade, gang. If this one is going to get anywhere, consider it having been handed off! I just toss the ideas out if they're self-explanatory or do the leg work needed to entice a sorcerer to get involved.

I am but a humble apprentice.

 

[Trash80toG4]

If you want internal wifi, the RaSCSI project will give you a hard drive and wifi together. The raspberry pi component is just very expensive currently. And I don't know if there's a powerbook style "hat" board for it - maybe I should make one.

Yeah, your custom hat is a great suggestion, but the BlueBird Module moniker wouldn't fit, LOL! I'd considered RaSCSI, but with AAUI on board my thinking was that adaptation from that starting point would be considerably faster? The Blackbird's expansion bay is located in front the chassis, outside its RFI shielding, so it would probably work using just the Pi's built-in antenna?

The open source, more economical approach @eric took aligns nicely with the KISS principle, moniker and my meager toy budget. Distribution network looks good on his site. I'm much impressed by your innovations in design for various applications, had you in mind from the start.

Not up on development though, looks like BlueSCSI has USB updating/loading? Does or can it support a thumb drive? Battery cover's latch location makes for a great spot for a full size connector.

Dunno, lots of questions, but no answers for this kind of stuff.

 

[Androda]

I'd expect WiFi via RaSCSI to work fine in the expansion bay, for the reason you mention. Outside the primary RF shielding. Probably range reduced because it has to shout through plastic. Using the built in networking (aaui) should be substantially faster than any scsi-based solution.

BlueSCSI could theoretically support a USB storage system. You wouldn't want to use it because the built in USB hardware on our target stm32 chips only supports USB 1.1 speeds which are what, 12 megabits? Though I'm still confused about scsi performance on the 5x0 series. A 180 is faster in my testing. https://github.com/androda/F4_BlueSCSI/wiki/System-Compatibility-and-Performance#powerbooks

The USB update option requires a computer currently, and can't be updated via a file on the SD card for example.

 

[Trash80toG4]

The USB update option requires a computer currently, and can't be updated via a file on the SD card for example.

I was thinking updates via vertical USB port in the end cap over cable from computer, not storage. Maybe data transfer to SD from thumb drive, but that's redundant given removable SD card access. USB speed wasn't a limitation for my notions thought it irrelevant. SD card removal would require sleep mode at the very least, more likely shutdown state?

edit: push/click/eject connector spec'd for SD retention given outside access. Can't be a good thing if SD gets knocked loose.

 

[Androda]

Safest is full shutdown to remove the SD card. Depends on whether the drive logic power, motor power, and termination power lines are still powered in sleep mode. If all power sources are disabled then it's the same as being fully shut down.

I suppose we could try to build in a mode that can "eject" the card. That would probably require some sort of custom scsi commands system so the computer can tell BlueSCSI to stop talking to the card (and when to check again).

Certainly doable, just more work.

 

[-SE40-]

Do you mean a kind of micro SD to SD extender?
Last year I tried one on my Pi-retro game display.

As I did order two from Ali, I was wondering if it would work with BS too…….(it does!)

 

[retr01]

Do you mean a kind of micro SD to SD extender?
Last year I tried one on my Pi-retro game display.

As I did order two from Ali, I was wondering if it would work with BS too…….(it does!)

Link? I am looking for one with about 300 mm in length. Ada Fruit sells one, but it is 600 mm, which is too long. I haven't had much luck looking for a shorter length on Amazon.

 

[-SE40-]

See link/seller in the attachments….

 

[retr01]

See link/seller in the attachments….

I do not see the seller's name or the link in the attachments? Hmmm.

 

[-SE40-]

Hope the link works…. , its micro sd to sd.
You have to select that extra while ordering.

(a longer extension may not be such a good idea,
but you can try)

 

[Trash80toG4]

Safest is full shutdown to remove the SD card. Depends on whether the drive logic power, motor power, and termination power lines are still powered in sleep mode. If all power sources are disabled then it's the same as being fully shut down.

Shutdown would be what I was figuring on. Was up for a bit earlier and couldn't resist checking in (Covid Coughing fit) so sleep mode SD removal was silly notion as was the thumb drive complicattion. KISS principle adherence tends to be slack when I'm half asleep.

< tangent > Vertical mount full size thumb drive socket(s) sticking out one side or the other of my Lombard would be great as would PDQ and Pismo bays. No SCSI or Wifi complications, simple PCB adequate for the task. But that subject's for a dedicated thread
< /tangent >

I suppose we could try to build in a mode that can "eject" the card. That would probably require some sort of custom scsi commands system so the computer can tell BlueSCSI to stop talking to the card (and when to check again).

KISS principle avoidance alert! Featuritis to be avoided at all costs, like keeping WiFi out of the spec. Ejecting primary mass storage seems a bad idea to pursue, given the smallish Blackbird community.*****

Certainly doable, just more work.

BlueBird SD Module was conceived as an all but development work free endeavor. I figured a customized board layout with connectors rearranged to fit the task at hand would have some appeal? Forgot all about mentioning activity LED support located opposite the USB connector.

Developing the kissy-lipped, USB port equipped battery end cap seems likely to get a 3D master involved? Baseline chassis work is all but done given the great work already accomplished by @This Does Not Compute, only the retention nubbins need be added.

Baseline, blank end cap sans latch combined with stationary chassis would fill a lot of empty holes like the one in my base unit. BlueBird would be one fork with a replacement cover would being the other. I don't have a spare dead battery, the one I do have has a broken latch and I'm sure many others would welcome a stock part replacement.

The "weight saving" storage module in my 190/5300 collection is one of my prized possessions.


***** Customized board could have a much wider appeal. Can't think of much reason why an FDD anywhere across my collection shouldn't be supplanted by the BlueBird PCB? Support for teensy USB connector/access would be in baseline spec.

 

[Trash80toG4]

Do you mean a kind of micro SD to SD extender?

Yep, that's the type to be avoided due to its slip-out SD card feature. Mentioned reasons for avoidance upthread.