BluesSCSI hda files corruption

[Borgmac]

Hi,
I am new to Blue SCSI. Have used SCSI2SD for a couple of years. I have an internal in a Mac SE as permanent drive and use an external with different computers.
I wanted to try BlueSCSI. Ordered the kit, Assembled it. A little bit of solder in the SD Card needed some attention, but after checking the connections, everything was OK.
Created blank images with Disk Jockey (love that software)
Use it on my recently acquired Quadra 950 where I set up a new HD IBM Server 70 GB to transfer data.
While playing with it and doing 3 different things on the Quadra, it did hang up while copying on the hda file.
Could not use the card anymore. Even after formatting the SD Card (ExFAT using Disk utility on my Mac mini M1), and copying new hda blank disk. I always got a -127 error on the Quadra.
-127 fsDSIntErr Internal file system error
I tried with another SD Card, same issue after a couple of tests.
As I was using low quality SD CARDs (class 6), I am wondering if this could be the explanation.
I just bought a SanDisk Class 10, 130 MB/sec card.

Before doing some tests again, any recommendation to avoid new issues?

Thanks for your advices.

 

[Kai Robinson]

Paging @eric

 

[eric]

Please give the SD Card Formatter with full overwrite format checked a try - it fixes 99% of weird SD issues. Also if there's any flux on the SD card pads/holder I've had that be an issue - doesn't hurt to just give it a quick spray/wipe of IPA. Lastly measure voltage - If your 5v is low it could cause poor termination, which may lead to issues - you can power it via a molex to berg if need be (but also check the 5v rail on the molex side as well)

You can find all this and a bunch of other info in the Trouble Shooting guide on the wiki - check it out.

SanDisk is known to have issues with the SdFat (and other libraries, not just bluescsi) - I usually use WD or the ones at the counter at microcenter are great too. Any card you get you should immediately test to see if it's a fake or rebranded - even if the packaging looks legit - so many bad cards out there!

And yes DJ is great

Sorry I missed this, work/life is busy this summer.

 

[pocketscience]

I need to follow this... I bought a BlueSCSI a while back and could never get it to work with any SD card. I got lazy and bought another from elsewhere and it's been perfect... really should try sort out the busted one... I'm guessing it has no firmware installed as all it ever did was blink the LED (blink.ino style)

 

[eric]

The very old firmware did just blink for errors, and if you have that old of firmware you should update! All authorized sellers test on a real machine before shipping but something could always have slipped through. If you don't have a st link to upgrade to the latest usb flash able firmware feel free to DM me and I can upgrade it and give it a test and once over for the cost of shipping.

 

[pocketscience]

*cough*Australia*cough*..

I'll dig up an st-link and have a go...

 

[Borgmac]

Please give the SD Card Formatter with full overwrite format checked a try - it fixes 99% of weird SD issues. Also if there's any flux on the SD card pads/holder I've had that be an issue - doesn't hurt to just give it a quick spray/wipe of IPA. Lastly measure voltage - If your 5v is low it could cause poor termination, which may lead to issues - you can power it via a molex to berg if need be (but also check the 5v rail on the molex side as well)

You can find all this and a bunch of other info in the Trouble Shooting guide on the wiki - check it out.

SanDisk is known to have issues with the SdFat (and other libraries, not just bluescsi) - I usually use WD or the ones at the counter at microcenter are great too. Any card you get you should immediately test to see if it's a fake or rebranded - even if the packaging looks legit - so many bad cards out there!

And yes DJ is great

Sorry I missed this, work/life is busy this summer.

Thanks Eric, will try all that. I think SD Card pads/holder are pretty cleaned, I use a lot of IPA to clean everything after soldering.
BUT, that 5V voltage ring a bell to me. I have started to call that machine the cursed 950 as I have regular issues.
For example, CD drive and SCSI HD are not always working together.
I replaced the passive terminator by an active one, but after a couple of days, issues were coming back.
I had to disconnect the CD Drive for the HD to work well.

I measured the +5V, it is 5.11 at the PSU output but 4.78 on the external SCSI and 4.87 at the internal SCSI.
I am going to dig into that.

 

[Borgmac]

eric said:
Please give the SD Card Formatter with full overwrite format checked a try - it fixes 99% of weird SD issues.

I confirm that I can use the SD Card normally. Copied 2 hda files and can use it.

 

[Borgmac]

Regarding the voltage, I made several tests, measuring TermPWR voltage, also with other computers.

First conclusions: (see attached file for detailed measurements)

• Even with a 5.10 V at the PSU level, TermPWR is usually around 4.75 V. @eric , do you consider this a low voltage for the termination?
• When I could not use an internal HD, I had a TermPWR fluctuating between 4.78 to 4.86. Not that big, but could that explain a termination issue?
• After connecting external device, the internal TermPWR stabilized and I can now use the internal HD, with or without am connected external device.

Does that make sense in a SCSI word that has always been "sensitive"?
Could such a fluctuation be due to caps problem?
Mother board looks perfect so I have not do ant recap yet. Is the Quadra 950 as bad as the Quadra 610 for caps issue or more like the SE?

So many questions, thanks for any help.

 

[Borgmac]

Regarding the voltage, I made several tests, measuring TermPWR voltage, also with other computers.

First conclusions: (see attached file for detailed measurements)

• Even with a 5.10 V at the PSU level, TermPWR is usually around 4.75 V. @eric , do you consider this a low voltage for the termination?
• When I could not use an internal HD, I had a TermPWR fluctuating between 4.78 to 4.86. Not that big, but could that explain a termination issue?
• After connecting external device, the internal TermPWR stabilized and I can now use the internal HD, with or without am connected external device.

Does that make sense in a SCSI word that has always been "sensitive"?
Could such a fluctuation be due to caps problem?
Mother board looks perfect so I have not do ant recap yet. Is the Quadra 950 as bad as the Quadra 610 for caps issue or more like the SE?

So many questions, thanks for any help.
View attachment 7112

Should I create another post as this has clearly nothing to do with the BlueSCSI device?

 

[eric]

4.75v*0.6 (diode) == 2.85v and term needs 2.85v pull up

Even with a 5.10 V at the PSU level, TermPWR is usually around 4.75 V. @eric , do you consider this a low voltage for the termination?

It is on the low side if you measured before the diode - as the diode does drop the voltage slightly. You could rule this as an issue in or out by power via USB.

When I could not use an internal HD, I had a TermPWR fluctuating between 4.78 to 4.86. Not that big, but could that explain a termination issue?

That spread (i think) should be ok - does the bluescsi work when you are at 4.86?

After connecting external device, the internal TermPWR stabilized and I can now use the internal HD, with or without am connected external device.

The external device may feed 5v back into the line and pull it closer to 5v. My External Apple CD-ROM does this.

Could such a fluctuation be due to caps problem?

Old PSU's could case this - but that's a big job for a Q950. I would start with just seeing if powering via USB resolves it, then we can know for sure if it's a low voltage situation or not.

Should I create another post as this has clearly nothing to do with the BlueSCSI device?

I'm fine continuing debugging here.

 

[Borgmac]

4.75v*0.6 (diode) == 2.85v and term needs 2.85v pull up

It is on the low side if you measured before the diode - as the diode does drop the voltage slightly. You could rule this as an issue in or out by power via USB.

That spread (i think) should be ok - does the bluescsi work when you are at 4.86?

Thanks for your inputs.
Sorry, forgot to tell you that I have the DB25 BlueSCSI, so it is never connected on the 4.86 as on external SCSI, maxi is 4.76.
That means also that the connection of a device on the external bus should not have an impact on the internal bus, but who knows?

Anyway, here are some measurements with and without USB power of 5.11 V.
External TermPWr increases by less than 1%.
I measure also some Bluepill voltages, The impact is higher. I don't know if it helps.
Do this looks like a weak PSU 5V signal?

The external device may feed 5v back into the line and pull it closer to 5v. My External Apple CD-ROM does this.

For my issue on unstability on the internal SCSI Bus, no impact on the TermPWR voltage by connecting 5V power on the external bus, which seems logical. I think on the Q950, each internal and external SCSI buses have a separate SCSI chip and there is only a logical mix as you cannot have the same SCSI ID on external and internal buses.

I will anyway use the computer with the BlueSCSI connected to the external 5V supply and see if I still have internal bus instability.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[pocketscience]

The very old firmware did just blink for errors, and if you have that old of firmware you should update! All authorized sellers test on a real machine before shipping but something could always have slipped through. If you don't have a st link to upgrade to the latest usb flash able firmware feel free to DM me and I can upgrade it and give it a test and once over for the cost of shipping.

Eric, I pulled the SD card out of the BlueSCSI in question out last night and had a play on my Mac Plus (yes, with the TERMPWR mod) with another BlueSCSI I just finished building. Similar issue but this time the Mac wouldn't even finish POST - odd static pattern on screen. Hmm. I tried the exact same device, card etc in my SE/30 and it's perfect. So it seems it was my Mac Plus that didn't like the original BlueSCSI - or any BlueSCSI it seems. Oh but wait.. I then remembered I had a BlueSCSI that I got from Kay Koba. That one works in the Plus no problem. So three BlueSCSI's (A, B, C) - all work on my SE/30, but only C works on the Plus. Same SD card used each time. The jumper settings on each of A, B and C is the same. Perplexing..

 

[retr01]

Interesting @pocketscience. So, do I need to get a specific BlueSCSI inside the Mac Plus internally? Specific jumper settings on BlueSCSI? Specific firmware? I thought it was PnP.

 

[eric]

odd static pattern on screen

That is usually from LIDO drivers, will cause that pattern (even with a real physical hdd, nothing to do with BlueSCSI) - Very odd if the same SD card works, but could you please use Disk Jockey to validate your image, or DM me a link to the image you're using and I can test (or if it's public just link it here). Note that even though the file names may be the same the drivers were recently updated on the RaSCSI images on the garden - grab the latest.

What exact version of BlueSCSI's hardware are theses? 1.0-b should have a bodge to make it a 1.0-c (only a few went out without bodges, but could be yours)

Could you measure resistance between some of the SCSI pins on each? All 3 should be the same, if not maybe a HW defect or issue.

So, do I need to get a specific BlueSCSI inside the Mac Plus internally? Specific jumper settings on BlueSCSI? Specific firmware? I thought it was PnP.

The Mac Plus has no internal 50 pin SCSI connector, so no SCSI drive would work internally without modification. There are no Jumper settings on BlueSCSI that affect operation - it is PNP. (jumpers are to enable termination or for flashing updates.) All firmware version work with mac plus, we test this machine each release.

 

[retr01]

The Mac Plus has no internal 50 pin SCSI connector, so no SCSI drive would work internally without modification.

What was done back in the day for the Hyperdrive internal hard drive in the 512k and Plus by General Computer? Hmmm. I am sure it was some modification somehow to tap the SCSI bus internally.

I realized the connection was piggyback to the pins of the 68000 by the killy clip.

More on a new thread here.

 

[eric]

@retr01 while I appreciate your enthusiasum, please start a new thread if you wish to discuss somthing unrelated to this troubleshooting. When troubleshooting you many times need to go back and re-read and look for the one thing that may be the root issue, which becomes difficult with off topic chatter.

 

[retr01]

I agree, @eric. My apologies. I have created a new thread and moved posts there. Thank you.

 

[pocketscience]

That is usually from LIDO drivers, will cause that pattern (even with a real physical hdd, nothing to do with BlueSCSI) - Very odd if the same SD card works, but could you please use Disk Jockey to validate your image, or DM me a link to the image you're using and I can test (or if it's public just link it here). Note that even though the file names may be the same the drivers were recently updated on the RaSCSI images on the garden - grab the latest.

What exact version of BlueSCSI's hardware are theses? 1.0-b should have a bodge to make it a 1.0-c (only a few went out without bodges, but could be yours)

Could you measure resistance between some of the SCSI pins on each? All 3 should be the same, if not maybe a HW defect or issue.

You were right re the LIDO driver. I got rid of that and the grey pattern went away - and the story changed slightly.

All hardware is 1.1-a. I checked the resistance between a bunch of pins between working and non-working BlueSCSI and everything seemed OK (ie v.similar numbers for the same pin combinations).

The only BlueSCSI that's not working* now is the original and has firmware 1.0-20210410 (vs 1.1-20220626-USB on the newest). So I think I'll dig out my ST-Link and try to get it up to date with the latest firmware & bootloader.

* by "not working" I mean the Mac won't boot from it. Log files show everything is happy in BlueSCSI land though.. ie it enumerates the images and then heads off for the main loop.

 

[pocketscience]

Right.. updated via ST-Link to the latest firmware.. No meaningful improvement. Device flashes quickly at power on, then goes to ~1 flash per second and Mac doesn't boot - just shows insert disk icon. Place card in another BlueSCSI and it boots up with no drama.

The log file from the failed boot looks perfectly fine to me..

BlueSCSI <-> SD - https://github.com/erichelgeson/BlueSCSI
VERSION: 1.1-20220626-USB
DEBUG:0 SDFAT_FILE_TYPE:3
SdFat version: 2.1.2
Sd Format: exFAT
SPI speed: 50Mhz
SdFat Max FileName Length: 32
Initialized SD Card - lets go!
Sd MID:3 OID:SD
Sd Name:SC16G
Sd Date:9/2011
Sd Serial:4215912579
- HD10_512 512MB.hda / 536870912bytes / 524288KiB / 512MiB
- HD20_512 2048MB.hda / 2147483648bytes / 2097152KiB / 2048MiB
ID:LUN0:
0:----:
1: 512:
2: 512:
3:----:
4:----:
5:----:
6:----:
Finished initialization of SCSI Devices - Entering main loop.

I was thinking maybe the resistor nets were backwards or something silly like that, but they look fine. Now slowly comparing the connections from the schematic to the PCB...