Color Classic analog board trouble

YMK

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Nov 8, 2021
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Meaning, we cannot put a heatsink with 6mm inner diameter on a DO-15 diode that is between 2.60mm and 3.60mm in size.

I thought that might be the case. The spec is very loose so you'll probably have to measure your specific part.

You could always add another in parallel like Apple did. Though they may not share current equally, even a 60/40 split would help.

If the Zener is never forward biased, two parts in series with half the voltage rating would share current equally.

In any case, the single replacement isn't anywhere near hot enough to scorch the board like the originals.
 
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JDW

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Gentlemen,

Thank you for your feedback.

I arrived at the office this morning and flipped on the swatch at back. I never booted the machine. The case-back was off, of course, but it can't be helped. There is no air movement in the room in which I am testing the machine. Ambient was almost exactly like last night, right at 30°C. It did not reach 130°C like it did last night, as you can see below. But I think it reached 130°C last night in part because the machine was one for quite some time and more heated overall. Then when the machine is Shutdown, DL22, for whatever reason experiences a temperature RISE.

Note that what I call DL21 in my previous posts is really the same Zener soldered into DL22 pads, not DL21 pads. I should have written DL22 in those earlier images, but I'm not going back to fix them. Please just take note of this minor correction.

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I then press the keyboard's power key to boot the machine, and only seconds later it had booted to the Desktop and DL22 had dropped 17.2°C — a rather enormous temperature drop! But that's what I confirmed last night too.

1754050647895.png


And after waiting 42 minutes for resistor RL22 to heat up, what once was a wicked-hot 170°C component with the tiny stock resistor is now a much cooler-operating 115.7°C. And, if I had the case-back on and fan running, it probably would be cooler than that.

1754050814020.png



And 43 minutes after booting, Zener diode DL22 had heated up a bit, but still much cooler than in the Shutdown condition:

1754051104374.png


But only a minute after doing a Shutdown (power SW at back still ON), that dirty rat DL22 was back at a whopping 130.5°C again, just like I reported last night. For reasons I do not understand, immediately after Shutdown is the hottest time for that 5W Zener at DL22. It stays that way a long time (more than a half hour), but it will eventually drop down to the 122°C to 123°C range and stabilize there. But again, that's with the case-back off, and with it on Shutdown, it's probably a tad hotter. It can operate at up to 150°C, but for a margin of safety, we wouldn't want it to go beyond 140°C. And when you consider the stock Zeners were at about 105°C to 110°C (at least, that's what I measured back in 2023), that's about a 20°C temperature increase only because we switched to a single 5W Zener. Better electrically, to be sure, but super hot too (when Shutdown).

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And here are the nearby capacitor temperatures (lower today as compared to last night when DL22 was 130°C)...

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I am furious at myself for having forgotten to measure Voltage at the cathode of the stock DL21/DL22 zeners prior to my component swap! But I absolutely will NOT remove my current part only to swap in that original part and measure because I would need to do 3 applications of heat to get it back to where it is now, and with the board pads already compromised due to heat, I don't want to do that.

What I can say again is what I said last night. With the 1N5355B 5W 18V (Izt=65mA), I am measuring between 19.1V and 19.3V. That tells me it's getting less than Izt (less than 65mA). The stock parts were 18V 1.25W, Izt=20.8mA 1N5931B. But there were two of them, so you'd need double that Izt and maybe a tad more, so 20.8x2=41.6mA. The circuit may have fed it 50mA or so. But if true, 50mA is less than the 65mA Izt of our replacement, which would explain why I see 19.1 rather than something closer to 18V. In our limited testing, that 1v difference (assuming there is one because again, I never tested the voltage using the stock Zeners) probably doesn't matter much.

But if anyone reading this thread has their Analog Board stock, please hook up your meter as shown below (hooking to that one end of RL62 is easier than hooking to the Zeners), and report your voltage measurement with the power switch on but shutdown...

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JDW

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@Kay K.M.Mods very graciously made time today to measure voltage at the side of RL62 that connects to the Cathode side of DL21 and DL22. He had the stock diodes installed. He measured 19.7v. That is a great relief to me because my measurement was about 19.3v when using the 5W replacement Zener. I had been thinking the stock parts might regulate closer to 18V (their Zener voltage) but clearly that is not the case with the stock parts.

I was thinking the only potential issue is the 130.5°C I measured on the new 5W part immediately after doing a Shutdown (power switch still ON). However, both @YMK and @Kay K.M.Mods have pointed out that the stock 2 diodes would have to be on order of 200°C or so in order to scorch the PCB black, so compared to that, 130°C isn't so bad.

The stock parts are 1N5931B, which allows operation up to 200°C (some parts say 175°C). However, the 5W 1N5355B also has a 200°C max temperature spec, but not "continuous." The datasheet suggests its temperature be kept to 150°C or lower.

The good news is that I didn't measure higher than about 130.5°C in my many hours of testing, and the ambient room temperature was about 31°C too. So the only potential for disaster is if you leave your CC plugged into the wall socket and keep the switch at back ON, and leave your machine that way in your room at home during the summer months with the curtains open, so the room temperature rises much higher than normal. Then you may be pushing the upper limits of that 150°C. However, I did find the temperature drops down from 130.5°C to about 124°C after 30 minutes or so.

So after all this analysis, I do think we're good. I can proceed a bit more confidently now with my video creation.

Thanks to everyone for the help and input!
 
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JDW

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And here is the fruit of my labors:


I hope it helps those of you who've been following this thread but haven't yet made the time to try it yet. It's worth it.

A huge shout out to @YMK for having started this thread, and to @This Does Not Compute for chiming in with his experience. Special thanks to @Kay K.M.Mods for having made time to measure voltage for me, and for making extra copies of Doping Mac for sale too! (These are the original books printed in 1997, not photocopies or reproductions.)
 

JDW

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I was thinking the only potential issue is the 130.5°C I measured on the new 5W part immediately after doing a Shutdown (power switch still ON). However, both @YMK and @Kay K.M.Mods have pointed out that the stock 2 diodes would have to be on order of 200°C or so in order to scorch the PCB black, so compared to that, 130°C isn't so bad.
I'm done filming my video about the 84v mod (13“ High Resolution mod) conversion and will spend the weekend editing. For now, I can say that only some components get hotter than with the standard 68.4V VGA Mod, and those are the components we upgraded to beefier versions in this thread.

The only component that is still somewhat concerning is that Zener Diode DL22 (single diode, 5W) is slightly hotter now in the Shutdown condition AFTER the machine has been booted a while. But if you merely switch on the power switch at back and never boot, DL22 runs a bit cooler.

Zener Diode DL22 TESTS

Power Switch ON (never booted)​

With VGA Mod (68.4V): 121°C
With 84V Mod: 121°C
Ambient Room Temp.: 30~31°C
NOTE: Rear Housing Removed (case fan not running)

While Booted at least 30 min.​

With VGA Mod (68.4V): 111.8°C
With 84V Mod: 113°C
Ambient Room Temp.: 30~31°C
NOTE: Rear Housing Removed (case fan not running)

Immediately After Shutdown (after having been booted at least 30 min.)​

With VGA Mod (68.4V): 130.5°C
With 84V Mod: 133.9°C (see thermal photo below)
Ambient Room Temp.: 30~31°C
NOTE: Rear Housing Removed (case fan not running)

1756439166111.png


30 min. After Shutdown (after having been booted at least 30 min.)​

With VGA Mod (68.4V): 123°C
With 84V Mod: 125.2°C
Ambient Room Temp.: 30~31°C
NOTE: Rear Housing Removed (case fan not running)


Resistor RL22, after booted >30 min.

(Before Beefy 5W Component Swap: 170°C)
With VGA Mod (68.4V): 115.7°C
With 84V Mod: 131.4°C (see thermal photo below)
Ambient Room Temp.: 30~31°C
NOTE: Rear Housing Removed (case fan not running)

1756440326014.png
 
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BobDaAggie

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Jan 15, 2025
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I am waiting with baited breath for your video @JDW

I have greatly enjoyed all of your videos so far. I have recently acquired a CC and the main motherboard has been recapped it still does not boot. I am looking forward for your video so I can recap the analog board and then do the 84v conversion
 
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JDW

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@BobDaAggie
Thank you! I'm actually doing my final edits on that video right now! :)
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It will go out to my channel supports first, and then it will be Publicly released.

I've actually never done a recapping video on the Analog Board because when I got my CC, that was already recapped. But @Branchus has an excellent video on the recapping of both the stock CC motherboard and the Analog Board:


I will later do a video about recapping the LC520 board (and probably the stock CC board too, since I have that), and I plan to do the resistor mod on on the 520 board too, which should boost the clock speed from 25MHz to 33MHz. That is really the motherboard I would recommend to you if you won't be getting an LC575 board. Both boards are probably challenging to find, but the 575 is a bit more highly sought after. The LC520 basically becomes a 550 after the resistor mod, and the 550 board is what a CCII uses. I show the 520 board running at 25MHz in my forthcoming video on the 84v mod. The stock CC board is slow and limited to 10MB of RAM, and the bus speed is tied to 16MHz too, making it OK to use for a while, but you'll probably soon be wanting more.

Anyway, the video will come soon!
 
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BobDaAggie

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So when I got my CC the seller also had an untested CC2 motherboard. So I have both. I want to get it running with the known good board before I start messing with the untested board.

I am looking for an LC575 board but that is more of a down the road acquisition.
 
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