Connecting eMate to Mac OSX - "there was no response"

[caver01]

Some of you may have been following my eMate restoration thread which has been mostly routine, I think. Today, I am trying to make a serial connection to my modern macintosh (M1 Mac Mini running Sonoma 14.6.1.

Naturally, I downloaded Newton Connection Version 3.0.2 (67). I don't have any hands-on experience with a Newton connection, but my understanding is that with the right cabling, the software running on the desktop properly configured, I press DOCK and pick the appropriate connection mechanism (serial in my case).

There is obviously some cabling hoops to jump through, but I think I have it setup. . . I bought an FTDI chip USB-to-Serial cable with USB-A on one end, and the 8-pin Mini DIN on the other. This seemed like the simplest option--plug in the USB on my M1 Mini, and the 8-pin DIN into the serial port on the eMate. Right?

Only, it does not work:
I can see the port in the NCX app settings. It shows up as: usbserial-D30JCK5S which does correspond to this cable when viewed in my system profiler. I have no other serial devices to confuse things.

NCX simply says to first establish a connection to the Newton. I assume that means pressing DOCK and connect on the emate.

When I do that, using default speed setting in the NCX app for this usbserial-D30JCK5S connection, it does nothing. The eMate tries for a moment, then a dialog pops up that it stoped because there was no response. Indeed, nothing is happening in NCX either.

I tried to see if I could tap into the serial data using CU at the command line on the mac, so. . .

sudo cu -s 38400 -l /dev/cu.usbserial-D30JCK5S

Connected.

Pressing DOCK reveals nothing on in Terminal.


If I try running CU while NCX is open I get "line in use" so I know the app is at least commandeering the cable/port.

Thoughts? Am I doing something wrong? Is it too much to expect this to work on Sonoma?

Thanks!

 

[splorp]

I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong, but from my experience (and discussions on the NewtonTalk list) NCX does have some issues with macOS beyond Catalina (10.15) or so.

I can try it on one of my Sonoma machines and double check.

Unfortunately, Simon Bell (the developer of NCX) is no longer supporting the software. In fact, I’m hosting his old website for legacy reasons.

However, he has put the scource code for NCX on GitHub, if someone with Xcode chops would like to tackle some fixes.

GitHub - newtonresearch/newton-connection: A modern replacement for Apple’s Newton Connection Utilities (NCU).

A modern replacement for Apple’s Newton Connection Utilities (NCU). - newtonresearch/newton-connection

github.com

 

[caver01]

Ok. I wish I had the programming experience to help.

I did wonder, however why I wouldn’t at least see something using “cu“ at the command line. I guess I don’t have any of the details about the docking protocol, so not sure what I was expecting—probably not “eMate here trying to dock. . .” but maybe at least a few odd handshake characters. Maybe it is sending control characters or expecting the desktop to initiate, like AT commands to a modem. I dunno.

I was worried after my restoration that maybe I have an issue with the serial port. I do have a few other routes to try as I climb a bit further down the rabbit hole. I have an eMac which dual boots a few older versions of OSX that might be worth a go (or even classic OS9). I might even try a Powerbook 5300 which has an 8-pin serial. Finally, and this might be fun to try in any case, I was going to see if I can do anything with appletalk (phoneNet), as I also have an Asante appletalk-ethernet bridge.

 

[caver01]

Today, I tried the NCX software and my USB-to-serial cable on a pair of older machines:

First alternate attempt:
Mac Mini (intel 2014) running MacOS Monterey 12.7.6. Same result. I can see the cable fine in NCX software, can select it in preferences, but pressing DOCK on the eMate, choosing SERIAL and CONNECT goes nowhere. I just get the no response dialog, and nothing changes on the desktop mac.

Second configuration:
Mac Mini (intel 2011) running MacOS High Sierra 10.13.6
Same setup, same result.
Then I loaded an older version of NCX 2.3. No difference.
Tried 2.04. Same result.

I am starting to wonder if the serial connection on the eMate is at fault.

Next attempt will be a a combo of cables including a keyspan adapter.
Then I will try straight serial to serial with an old PB5300.

Any thoughts?

 

[caver01]

Today, I tried connecting my old PB5300cs. This is booting into OS8 off of a PC card Compact Flash adapter. No internal HDD. I also happen to have the Orinoco Gold wifi PCMCIA card for it, so I could at least get it connected to the internet and get files downloaded.

After messing with .img files and installers I finally was able to get the Newton Connection Kit installed (hazards ahead. . .). Tried connecting with an 8 pin DIN to 8 Pin DIN cable I have. No luck. I am really starting to question the eMate's serial port.

On a whim, I tried another old dirty serial cable before attempting more configuration with AppleTalk connectors and . . . What's this? It started to connect! But then it failed. Error on Powerbook says I have the wrong version of Newton Connect for this newton device. Of course, I cannot use NCK, I have to use NCU. So, back to downloads and disk image mounts and FINALLY I have it installed. This required a reboot of the Powerbook. Ok.

Only now the PW does not boot!

It's a comedy of errors here. I finally have some success with a serial cable which at least validates my eMate is probably OK, only to have the NCU software crash my compact flash drive somehow. And the Powerbook is dead. I don't even remember how I got the flash drive setup in the first place! Geez. What a PITA.

Silver lining: eMate probably OK as it was starting--trying to connect and the mac was seeing it. I also can rule out one of my serial cables--maybe it's a null modem cable. Who knows. I still wonder what's going on with the FTDI cable I bought. Might try that cable again from the eMac next which can boot into a few different versions of MacOS including OS9.