Connecting eMate to Mac OSX - "there was no response"

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caver01

Tinkerer
Oct 30, 2021
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Some of you may have been following my eMate restoration thread which has been mostly routine, I think. Today, I am trying to make a serial connection to my modern macintosh (M1 Mac Mini running Sonoma 14.6.1.

Naturally, I downloaded Newton Connection Version 3.0.2 (67). I don't have any hands-on experience with a Newton connection, but my understanding is that with the right cabling, the software running on the desktop properly configured, I press DOCK and pick the appropriate connection mechanism (serial in my case).

There is obviously some cabling hoops to jump through, but I think I have it setup. . . I bought an FTDI chip USB-to-Serial cable with USB-A on one end, and the 8-pin Mini DIN on the other. This seemed like the simplest option--plug in the USB on my M1 Mini, and the 8-pin DIN into the serial port on the eMate. Right?

Only, it does not work:
I can see the port in the NCX app settings. It shows up as: usbserial-D30JCK5S which does correspond to this cable when viewed in my system profiler. I have no other serial devices to confuse things.

NCX simply says to first establish a connection to the Newton. I assume that means pressing DOCK and connect on the emate.

When I do that, using default speed setting in the NCX app for this usbserial-D30JCK5S connection, it does nothing. The eMate tries for a moment, then a dialog pops up that it stoped because there was no response. Indeed, nothing is happening in NCX either.

I tried to see if I could tap into the serial data using CU at the command line on the mac, so. . .

Code: 
sudo cu -s 38400 -l /dev/cu.usbserial-D30JCK5S

Connected.

Pressing DOCK reveals nothing on in Terminal.


If I try running CU while NCX is open I get "line in use" so I know the app is at least commandeering the cable/port.

Thoughts? Am I doing something wrong? Is it too much to expect this to work on Sonoma?

Thanks!
 
splorp

splorp

Tinkerer
Oct 31, 2021
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Calgary, Alberta
splorp.com
I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong, but from my experience (and discussions on the NewtonTalk list) NCX does have some issues with macOS beyond Catalina (10.15) or so.

I can try it on one of my Sonoma machines and double check.

Unfortunately, Simon Bell (the developer of NCX) is no longer supporting the software. In fact, I’m hosting his old website for legacy reasons.

However, he has put the scource code for NCX on GitHub, if someone with Xcode chops would like to tackle some fixes.

github.com

GitHub - newtonresearch/newton-connection: A modern replacement for Apple’s Newton Connection Utilities (NCU).

A modern replacement for Apple’s Newton Connection Utilities (NCU). - newtonresearch/newton-connection
github.com github.com
 
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caver01

Tinkerer
Oct 30, 2021
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Ok. I wish I had the programming experience to help.

I did wonder, however why I wouldn’t at least see something using “cu“ at the command line. I guess I don’t have any of the details about the docking protocol, so not sure what I was expecting—probably not “eMate here trying to dock. . .” but maybe at least a few odd handshake characters. Maybe it is sending control characters or expecting the desktop to initiate, like AT commands to a modem. I dunno.

I was worried after my restoration that maybe I have an issue with the serial port. I do have a few other routes to try as I climb a bit further down the rabbit hole. I have an eMac which dual boots a few older versions of OSX that might be worth a go (or even classic OS9). I might even try a Powerbook 5300 which has an 8-pin serial. Finally, and this might be fun to try in any case, I was going to see if I can do anything with appletalk (phoneNet), as I also have an Asante appletalk-ethernet bridge.
 
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caver01

Tinkerer
Oct 30, 2021
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Today, I tried the NCX software and my USB-to-serial cable on a pair of older machines:

First alternate attempt:
Mac Mini (intel 2014) running MacOS Monterey 12.7.6. Same result. I can see the cable fine in NCX software, can select it in preferences, but pressing DOCK on the eMate, choosing SERIAL and CONNECT goes nowhere. I just get the no response dialog, and nothing changes on the desktop mac.

Second configuration:
Mac Mini (intel 2011) running MacOS High Sierra 10.13.6
Same setup, same result.
Then I loaded an older version of NCX 2.3. No difference.
Tried 2.04. Same result.

I am starting to wonder if the serial connection on the eMate is at fault.

Next attempt will be a a combo of cables including a keyspan adapter.
Then I will try straight serial to serial with an old PB5300.

Any thoughts?
 
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caver01

Tinkerer
Oct 30, 2021
123
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Today, I tried connecting my old PB5300cs. This is booting into OS8 off of a PC card Compact Flash adapter. No internal HDD. I also happen to have the Orinoco Gold wifi PCMCIA card for it, so I could at least get it connected to the internet and get files downloaded.

After messing with .img files and installers I finally was able to get the Newton Connection Kit installed (hazards ahead. . .). Tried connecting with an 8 pin DIN to 8 Pin DIN cable I have. No luck. I am really starting to question the eMate's serial port.

On a whim, I tried another old dirty serial cable before attempting more configuration with AppleTalk connectors and . . . What's this? It started to connect! But then it failed. Error on Powerbook says I have the wrong version of Newton Connect for this newton device. Of course, I cannot use NCK, I have to use NCU. So, back to downloads and disk image mounts and FINALLY I have it installed. This required a reboot of the Powerbook. Ok.

Only now the PW does not boot!

It's a comedy of errors here. I finally have some success with a serial cable which at least validates my eMate is probably OK, only to have the NCU software crash my compact flash drive somehow. And the Powerbook is dead. I don't even remember how I got the flash drive setup in the first place! Geez. What a PITA.

Silver lining: eMate probably OK as it was starting--trying to connect and the mac was seeing it. I also can rule out one of my serial cables--maybe it's a null modem cable. Who knows. I still wonder what's going on with the FTDI cable I bought. Might try that cable again from the eMac next which can boot into a few different versions of MacOS including OS9.
 
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caver01

Tinkerer
Oct 30, 2021
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I have an eMac running OS9. I have a Palm USB to Serial adapter. I have a Keyspan USA-19HS USB to Serial adapter. I have a DB9-MiniDIN8 serial cable. Theoretically, I should be able to make a connection to the eMate.

Tried the Palm adapter first. Had to install Palm connect software which went fine. The adapter serial port is showing up in NCU. Using a gender changer, I have the serial cable chained over to the eMate. Press DOCK and get nothing—then Failed to Respond. No change on the eMac.

Removed the Palm adapter and installed Keyspan 19HS driver for Classic MacOS 8-9 from Wayback machine. This was tricky to unarchive but I eventually got it installed. This is a MUCH nicer setup, as the keyspan software includes a nice CDEV app for adjusting advanced settings. It also lets you monitor use. Launched the Newton software. It sees the Keyspan port. Set that. In the Keyspan config app it now shows “IN USE” which I take as a good sign. Again, DB9 gender changer, then 9-pin to MiniDIN8 on the eMate. Pressed DOCK and tapped Serial. Nothing. It tires, then fails, NO RESPONSE error again.

I am seriously starting to wonder if I have a bad serial port on the little eMate. Does that happen? Is there something I can check?. I have a dozen macs from various times in history (which is probably less than MANY of you) but I am seriously considering trying to sync with a PC now. Please, don’t let me do this! What a shame it would be if the only way I can sync my eMate is by using a windows PC. THoughts?
 
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joevt

Tinkerer
Mar 5, 2023
93
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Is the serial cable a null-modem cable? I think that's the same as a serial printer cable (Image Writer II) where the Rx on one end is connected to Tx on the other. It's the kind of cable you can use to connect two Macs together.

After selecting the correct cable, you need to make sure both devices are using the same baud.
 
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caver01

Tinkerer
Oct 30, 2021
123
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I don’t have any indication that it is a null modem cable, but I could check pin continuity with a multimeter. Are you saying that it SHOULD BE a null modem cable?

I am definitely familiar with the concept as I grew up with using modems and BBS systems, and doing file transfers between computers back then.

As for baud rates, the default is 38400 according to the eMate docs I have seen, and that’s what the Keyspan control panel says was being used by NCU when it showed ”in use”.
 
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caver01

Tinkerer
Oct 30, 2021
123
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I don’t know if this helps, but I tried another shorty DB9-MiniDIN8 adapter—maybe from an old Palm cradle. This time, the eMate error said that it failed and to check your cable connection. That is definitely a different error message which is puzzling.
 
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joevt

Tinkerer
Mar 5, 2023
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caver01

Tinkerer
Oct 30, 2021
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Thanks for that link to the macrumors thread. A nice image pasted in there should make testing my 8-pin cable a breeze. I suspect what I have are straight-through which is likely my issue. I don’t have the (DB) DE9 breakout but that could be really handy, as I have a bunch of long 8-pin cables I could use for this.
 
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