MacEffects Appreciation Post
- Thread starter wottle
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So, I just tried to measure my resin print with my cheap calipers and the round hole seems to be pretty much spot on at 6.0mm. Which is the same measurement I get on my original. I wonder if there's something else about the clear resin that is causing it not to go on (surface tension / friction stickiness of some kind). I decided to dremel out one of the two I had received and I did have to remove a pretty good amount before it would go all the way on like yours. (I figure dremelling out a $3 part was better than trimming off a piece of my nicest analog board). You definitely can see cloudiness in the nipple that you don't see as much on the un-dremmelled one. Hopefully we can get a cleanly printed one.
So, I think the dimensions are probably correct for most materials, but I'm guessing we'd want to expand by about .1mm on each side to allow it to slide on smoothly. So maybe a 6.2mm diameter and love the flat out .05mm? If you can do that, I could do another test print of a couple before I order more for anyone who wants a confirmed good fit.
placed my PCBWAY order for the clear resin variant of the parts i previously pictured.
figured it was time to bite the bullet.
figured it was time to bite the bullet.
Did you use the 6.2mm inner diameter version I posted here just 14 minutes ago? Wottle and I are trying to work out some dimensional challenges with clear resin. I am curious what file you used and obviously how the fit turns out.
@caver01
I downloaded your new STL. It only contains "Mac SE Brightness Knob Combined - 6.2 ID.stl". It does NOT also contain the combined "brim" version, which is needed to get around JLC3DP's infuriating min. size requirements:
I suppose you might argue that you only made the slightly bigger "6.2 ID" version because the thinking is that is only needed for resin prints, but is it?
On your own printer, the answer seems to be No. But at JLC? I guess it would be trial and error to find out.
BTW, I made an animated GIF so everyone can see the size change made in version "6.2 ID"...
My JLC order is still on hold while I try to figure out what to do.
I downloaded your new STL. It only contains "Mac SE Brightness Knob Combined - 6.2 ID.stl". It does NOT also contain the combined "brim" version, which is needed to get around JLC3DP's infuriating min. size requirements:
I suppose you might argue that you only made the slightly bigger "6.2 ID" version because the thinking is that is only needed for resin prints, but is it?
On your own printer, the answer seems to be No. But at JLC? I guess it would be trial and error to find out.BTW, I made an animated GIF so everyone can see the size change made in version "6.2 ID"...
My JLC order is still on hold while I try to figure out what to do.
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I like that animation!
The 6.2 ID version was really for @wottle and his troubleshooting and possible group buy. I know its frustrating to wait for those results. I have not added this to the item on Thingiverse (yet), as I know already that the 6mm diameter works just fine on my own SE. We are exploring new territory here with the tight-fitting resin print from wottle. 6mm should work, as it matches the original!
The 6.2 ID version was really for @wottle and his troubleshooting and possible group buy. I know its frustrating to wait for those results. I have not added this to the item on Thingiverse (yet), as I know already that the 6mm diameter works just fine on my own SE. We are exploring new territory here with the tight-fitting resin print from wottle. 6mm should work, as it matches the original!
My concern is about the fit of even the original Knob you created in terms of tightness. How "tightly" does the original fit in terms of how much those two "split" pieces "spread" when the knob is forced onto the POT's shaft? We haven't really evaluated that yet, but what we do know is Resin is more brittle that other types of plastic, so if that small center piece (the split piece) which goes around the POT shaft gets spread more than we think, it could in theory crack it over time. And because of that Resin cracking risk, I am thinking that your slightly wider version may be the best version in the end.
Of course, if it doesn't grip enough, that would be an issue, unless we use glue to keep it on.
But we also need to consider that, at least as far as JLC is concerned, they claim their Resin prints are more accurate to the original STL file than FDM prints. In other words, why would a more accurately printed Resin part fit more tightly than a less accurate FDM printed part at JLC? I would think the FDM print, being less accurate, would fit more tightly than Resin.
And that is why I said that trial and error is perhaps the only way to find out. So if you decide to make a BRIM VERSION of your enlarged center piece, I can then make multiple prints of both the original and larger versions, in both FDM and Resin at JLC, thereby finding a version of the Knob that works best.
@caver01 , thank you!
At this point, I should mention to everyone that my big reason to have an extra brightness knob is not merely for a Crystal Clear Mac Effects case. I want a spare one for use in another application, which I will now explain.
You see, I recently did a video about the Color LCD Kit for the SE/30 by @zigzagjoe. He published this user guide about how to install a brightness knob on his "Dummy Analog Board", and I've not done that install yet because I needed to order a 10kΩ POT and other parts for it. David Stahl of Daves Vintage Apple Tech made this video about his brightness knob install, which is quite a blurry video, but I was able to capture one still image from it and crank sharpening to the stratosphere to make what he did visible for all of you...
As you can see, that POT is hanging rather precariously in the air by only 3 solid-core copper wires of 0.8mm to 1.0mm thickness. It actually works like that because:
1. The pointy end of the brightness knob fits into the hole on the front of the SE/30's plastic case, making it more secure and taking a lot of pressure off those 3 copper wires.
2. You don't need to press hard on the knob to make it work.
All our talk about the 3D brightness knob printing in this thread got me thinking that it would be fantastic if there could be a 3D model made to offer support for that POT, taking strain off the 3 copper wires, which are needed because the POT doesn't have long enough legs on its own to work, and mounting the POT at the correct height is paramount. But that would require some precise measurements, and my POT hasn't arrived yet, and ZZJ hasn't published enough details for a 3D support part to be created. So I don't think it's possible to create such a 3D printable "support" at this time.
My plan for now is to simply hot-glue the 3 copper legs, so as to provide some added strain relief. And having a 3D-printed Brightness Knob means I won't have to use one from the SE/30 Analog Board I removed, thereby keeping that stock A.B. intact. At some point I can then release a shorter follow-up video showing people how to do the brightness knob install for themselves, which would involve 3D printing their own knob. That's why I'm trying to get the details right in this thread to get the best prints made at JLC3DP.
Having the multiple STL files in my hands now, I think I can proceed with my JLC order, with some prints in Resin, and others in some flavor of FDM, with both the larger and smaller sized center piece.
At this point, I should mention to everyone that my big reason to have an extra brightness knob is not merely for a Crystal Clear Mac Effects case. I want a spare one for use in another application, which I will now explain.
You see, I recently did a video about the Color LCD Kit for the SE/30 by @zigzagjoe. He published this user guide about how to install a brightness knob on his "Dummy Analog Board", and I've not done that install yet because I needed to order a 10kΩ POT and other parts for it. David Stahl of Daves Vintage Apple Tech made this video about his brightness knob install, which is quite a blurry video, but I was able to capture one still image from it and crank sharpening to the stratosphere to make what he did visible for all of you...
As you can see, that POT is hanging rather precariously in the air by only 3 solid-core copper wires of 0.8mm to 1.0mm thickness. It actually works like that because:
1. The pointy end of the brightness knob fits into the hole on the front of the SE/30's plastic case, making it more secure and taking a lot of pressure off those 3 copper wires.
2. You don't need to press hard on the knob to make it work.
All our talk about the 3D brightness knob printing in this thread got me thinking that it would be fantastic if there could be a 3D model made to offer support for that POT, taking strain off the 3 copper wires, which are needed because the POT doesn't have long enough legs on its own to work, and mounting the POT at the correct height is paramount. But that would require some precise measurements, and my POT hasn't arrived yet, and ZZJ hasn't published enough details for a 3D support part to be created. So I don't think it's possible to create such a 3D printable "support" at this time.
My plan for now is to simply hot-glue the 3 copper legs, so as to provide some added strain relief. And having a 3D-printed Brightness Knob means I won't have to use one from the SE/30 Analog Board I removed, thereby keeping that stock A.B. intact. At some point I can then release a shorter follow-up video showing people how to do the brightness knob install for themselves, which would involve 3D printing their own knob. That's why I'm trying to get the details right in this thread to get the best prints made at JLC3DP.
Having the multiple STL files in my hands now, I think I can proceed with my JLC order, with some prints in Resin, and others in some flavor of FDM, with both the larger and smaller sized center piece.
this is the file i used :
Mac SE/30 Brightness Knob by jonschwenn | Download free STL model | Printables.com
Download 3D printable STL models
www.printables.com
it was sitting in my cart for a few weeks.
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@caver01
So the question is, how similar is that Printable model to yours, and should he use your enlarged version instead?
I used the Printable model (although I combined the two pieces myself in TinkerCad, so the combined version @Dave928 used should be very similar to mine in terms of fit. It will be interesting to see if the clear resin print from PCBWay is a better fit. From my measurements, they seem to be pretty similar in size, so the difference may be in the flexibility of the material or the surface friction if the sizing is the same. I'm going to print some of the larger size and confirm they fit, then I can start fulfilling orders.
I will say the knob feels really nice when it is slid all the way on (the one I used the dremel on to remove some material). Changing brightness is very easy and smooth, confirming that you need it to sit almost flush when installed. I also am printing the original model in a new print option they have - stainless steel. If it work, I may see about trying to print one of my mice in the material.
EDIT: Just realized there is a different version on Printables - I was thinking of @caver01 's version on Thingiverse. I probably should have thrown in one of those to see how they printed. However, I think the issues I had with the resin prints are not a sizing issue as much as a flexibility and surface friction issue and any part accurate to the original sizes will struggle to fit like the original if it relies on flex at all. I actually put the original knob butted up to the resin one and pinched with my fingers and I could feel the original knob flex whereas the resin knob did not.
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i can just take what i get from PCBWAY and if it doesn't, or can't be made to work, i'll report it here and then just get one from you.
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i'll also note that i'm NOT replacing the not-so-clear PETG (Pg 1 pic) LCD frame and bezel with transparent resin. i'm keeping them as they'll hide the metal frame of the LCD panel.
And that is why my current order (still in my Cart, not ordered yet) includes a TPU version and Carbon fiber reinforced version, in hopes of getting that extra "flex" required...
Note the 2 at the top of my order are the enlarged version, while the two below that are the original version, and then you have TPU at the bottom, which should flex enough to where an enlarged version isn't needed.
Also note that I had to use the "brim" version for FDM prints, to get around JLC's min. size requirements. That will require me to brake off the brim by hand, and then sand down what remains on that edge.
This is pretty fascinating. . .
Now, I have a Printables account too, and I have never really bothered to make my Thingiverse designs have parity with my Printables. But as the sites have evolved, I might try to do more on Printables. The fact is, I started upload my designs to thingiverse before there really was a printables site to use.
That said, when I saw there was a second knob design out there I was curious to see how close it was to my design from a few years ago. I thought maybe it was my design just uploaded to the other site. After pulling them into my CAD program and overlaying, I can say that they are NOT the same, but very very close. It appeared as though a fellow enthusiast used their calipers like I did and reverse-engineered the dimensions—like so many of us do with this old stuff! It was uncanny how similar they were.
That satisfied my curiosity and I moved on. I don’t actually recall the minute variations beyond a slightly different slope to one of the cone-shaped areas. Frankly, it seemed to me that a printed part would work in both our cases just fine. Clearly, we are discovering with resin that tolerances may not be as flexible. I also cannot say whether the printables model has the same depth in the post area, or the same tension on a pot. I didn’t try that model, just looked at it on screen.
This has all been super fun and I feel like my tiny contribution is at least having a moment. My original intention was to fix an SE analog board that was missing the knob. I am glad to see the part having more uses now and look forward to seeing more results.
My easy answer is that since I am participating in this discussion and making adjustments toward progress for each of us, I would hope not to confuse the models.
Now, I have a Printables account too, and I have never really bothered to make my Thingiverse designs have parity with my Printables. But as the sites have evolved, I might try to do more on Printables. The fact is, I started upload my designs to thingiverse before there really was a printables site to use.
That said, when I saw there was a second knob design out there I was curious to see how close it was to my design from a few years ago. I thought maybe it was my design just uploaded to the other site. After pulling them into my CAD program and overlaying, I can say that they are NOT the same, but very very close. It appeared as though a fellow enthusiast used their calipers like I did and reverse-engineered the dimensions—like so many of us do with this old stuff! It was uncanny how similar they were.
That satisfied my curiosity and I moved on. I don’t actually recall the minute variations beyond a slightly different slope to one of the cone-shaped areas. Frankly, it seemed to me that a printed part would work in both our cases just fine. Clearly, we are discovering with resin that tolerances may not be as flexible. I also cannot say whether the printables model has the same depth in the post area, or the same tension on a pot. I didn’t try that model, just looked at it on screen.
This has all been super fun and I feel like my tiny contribution is at least having a moment. My original intention was to fix an SE analog board that was missing the knob. I am glad to see the part having more uses now and look forward to seeing more results.