PowerBook 165 restoration: Tips for getting started?

[gfuller]

I've been using my trusty 1994 Macintosh PowerBook 165 a lot at work recently for writing. It's actually the most capable 68k Mac in my collection — with its 33 MHz 68030, native System 7 and '030, and ability to work with a color external display. (I've actually tried it with an Apple Hi-Res RGB monitor, and it worked although unstable for reasons mentioned later.) Thus, since I got it, I've wanted to restore it.

However, my issue is I suck at working on laptops. A few years ago I killed my own daily driver T420 while trying to clean its fan/heat sink and reapply new thermal paste. It seems like anytime I dive in deeper than a simple drive swap or something, I'm in over my head. My other concern is the PowerBook 165 was made during the "SpindlerPlastic™" era. I've had rough luck with snapping or breaking plastic, even while trying to be super careful. I really don't want to damage any plastics and leave the PowerBook 165 in worse shape than it is. (It's not museum quality, but the plastics on it are in fairly good shape. The rear I/O door is still present, which seems to be a rarity as most were broken by those who forgot they were open.)

This time I'm trying to plan the project out, see what I need to do and the best way to do it without causing damage. This is my first time getting deep into a PowerBook, as most of my experience has been with the much more service-friendly compact Mac form factor.

The issues: I've noticed many issues with the PB 165 since getting it, which I detailed in a recent post on my blog. There are two primary concerns: screen issues and power supply(?) issues. The screen has weird lines and other artifacts/issues, and will also brighten over time. (Here lately the screen will get super bright — to the point where there's little, if any, contrast — if the machine has been running for a while. If my memory is serving me correctly, this is a pretty good sign the caps on the inverter board are toast?) The brightness/contrast controls are really scratchy and will likely get a treatment of DeoxIT while the machine is apart to correct. As for the power supply issue: The PowerBook 165 randomly shut down and entered a couple "chime cycles" with the aforementioned external display attached. I'm guessing this likely has something to do with the power supply, as the analog board in my Classic caused a similar issue before I had it recapped.

In addition to to fixing these issues, I'd like to perform some preventive maintenance while I have the machine disassembled. I'd like to replace the PRAM battery (or, at the very least, remove it) and clean/lubricate the floppy drive, which sees quite a bit of use. (I have cleaned and lubricated a "full-size" floppy drive on my Classic, but have not messed with any of the smaller drives found in laptops.) The internal 80 MB IBM TravelStar hard drive is going to be replaced with a laptop-sized BlueSCSI to expand its storage (the TravelStar has less than 2 MB free) and allow me to start with a fresh System 7 install.

The questions: I already have a bunch of questions before I embark on this project and screw something up.

First, what boards should be sent off to be recapped? I'm guessing the inverter board at a minimum to correct the screen issues. What board could be causing the machine to randomly reboot when an external display is connected?

Second, I've been looking at the PowerBook 160/165/180 service guide to get an idea of how difficult disassembly and reassembly may be. I already have some questions regarding that process:

1. Will I need to completely remove the I/O board from the computer? (Last time I had this machine apart, to remove its bloated NiMH battery, I didn't remove the door and it seemed OK?)
2. Will I need a new shield for the inverter board? (Service manual says to not re-use shields.)
3. What is the best method for removing the brightness/contrast actuators without damaging the plastics and/or potentiometers?
4. If needed, what is the best method for removing the daughterboard without a "logic board take-apart tool" without damaging anything?

I will likely have additional questions as I get rolling on the project — hopefully sometime here in the near future over the next couple weeks.

Until then, any input for getting started and planning it would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully these aren't dumb questions. I'll need to re-watch some PowerBook 160/165/180 disassembly videos and bring those memories forward in my own slow brain.

Thanks!
-Garrett

 

[retr01]

@3lectr1c!

 

[AvadonDragon]

What board could be causing the machine to randomly reboot when an external display is connected?

From your description of the symptoms it sounds like a weak power supply. The caps in those are bad about leaking.

If needed, what is the best method for removing the daughterboard without a "logic board take-apart tool" without damaging anything?

The daughterboard comes apart pretty easily. No special tool is needed and it isn't especially delicate or easy to damage.

The main thing is going to be getting the caps replaced in the LCD asap. I'm worried those vertical lines might be a telltale sign that the cap goo has already started to eat the ribbon cables.

The plastics on these are extremely brittle as you mentioned. The hinge mounts in the display assembly WILL fail at some point. There are models to 3D print some reinforcement blocks that work very well.

 

[retr01]

For example, @mmu_man and some others have been working on 3D designs to replace certain parts, such as the back door for PB 1xx series:

https://tinkerdifferent.com/threads/powerbook-1xx-powerdoor-tm-remake.2630/

 

[3lectr1c]

Your not-so-local "PowerBook Guy" on duty!

Screen issues
Common misconception, but the caps causing your screen issues are on the LCD itself, not the inverter board. There is a single through-hole electrolytic cap on the inverter board, but it is unlikely to be the cause of your issue. Get it changed, but prioritize the LCD panel itself.

Those "lines" are NOT the cap goo getting in the LCD ribbons - yet. Those artifact lines around open menus and windows exist to some degree on every passive matrix display, especially grayscale ones. They do however get a LOT worse as the caps die. Replacing them will clear the image a good bit, but not completely.

To echo was others have said, your external PSU is toast. They use horrible ELNA brand capacitors that sploosh their guts out as bad as SMD electrolytic caps do. Your supply is near death and the voltage output from it can fluctuate lower and higher than normal as those caps fail. I'd stop using it entirely until you've either gotten it recapped and cleaned VERY well or if you just pay up $10 for a generic aftermarket charger.

Other than the PSU, LCD panel, and the inverter board, the rest of the system should be all solid state capacitors.

With regards to plastic, these aren't the worst to deal with all things considered. The main things you have to watch out for are the hinge mounts, the clips for the display housing, and the screw mounts for the logic board and especially the drive cage. The drive cage mounts will fail with time alone due to mechanical stress I'd guess, best course is to patch them up as best you can with epoxy. The clips for the display housing are fragile but they shouldn't break if you're careful. Use a plastic guitar pick to carefully work your way up the sides of the housing until it pops free.

The hinge mounts on the other hand WILL absolutely fail with use no matter how careful you are. You have two options at that point.
1. Patch up the old hinge mounts with a generous helping of epoxy.
2. Trim the remains of the old ones off, sand the surface flush, and install one of these: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4391026
Both methods can and do work, although I'd personally recommend the 3D printed part if you feel like putting the effort in. They're a pain to install due to sanding the originals off completely, but doable with a few hours of work. One thing to note about installing these is that you'll almost certainly not be able to completely sand the plastic support "sticks" coming off the screw mounts flush with the corner of the case. This will lead to a fitment issue, which while not a fatal flaw, will leave you with a gap at the back of your display housing. To avoid this, simply sand back the 3D printed part itself.

PRAM Battery:
It's a lithium coin cell soldered to the main interconnect board. Not critical (yet) to remove, they don't usually leak. I haven't removed one myself (i really should) so I can't offer much help there, likely just have to desolder or clip it out though. Obviously be careful not to overheat the cell though, even if it's dead I can't see how it could be a good idea to overheat a lithium cell.

1. Will I need to completely remove the I/O board from the computer? (Last time I had this machine apart, to remove its bloated NiMH battery, I didn't remove the door and it seemed OK?)
2. Will I need a new shield for the inverter board? (Service manual says to not re-use shields.)
3. What is the best method for removing the brightness/contrast actuators without damaging the plastics and/or potentiometers?
4. If needed, what is the best method for removing the daughterboard without a "logic board take-apart tool" without damaging anything?

1. Not sure what you mean by the I/O board. Main logic board? Not necessary to remove it really. What door? The battery door?
2. Shield? I think some have a cover to protect against shocks from touching the high voltage components on there, but it really shouldn't be a big problem if you reuse it, especially now when the only people working on the system are hobbyists. Just make sure it's adhered in place. Don't see any reason why you couldn't reuse it?
3. You don't need to. The pots are soldered onto the inverter board in the bottom case, just lift the inverter board out and you'll have direct access to them.
4. This one's already been addressed by other people, just a couple screws and it pops out.

 

[gfuller]

From your description of the symptoms it sounds like a weak power supply. The caps in those are bad about leaking.


The daughterboard comes apart pretty easily. No special tool is needed and it isn't especially delicate or easy to damage.

The main thing is going to be getting the caps replaced in the LCD asap. I'm worried those vertical lines might be a telltale sign that the cap goo has already started to eat the ribbon cables.

The plastics on these are extremely brittle as you mentioned. The hinge mounts in the display assembly WILL fail at some point. There are models to 3D print some reinforcement blocks that work very well.

1. I was thinking power supply issue. It has a PowerBook "wall-wart" power supply, which I'm not sure is repairable since I believe I heard many are epoxied and not really repairable?

2. Was the service manual just being overly cautious on the daughterboard removal/installation? It says (on page 83/"Take Apart" 29 of the service guide):

Always use the logic board take-apart tool to separate the daughterboard connector from the motherboard connector. Trying to disconnect the daughterboard from the motherboard by rocking or peeling the boards apart damages the connectors.

Do I just need to be super careful when removing or installing the board?

3. I was worried that it might be caps in the LCD, which will require an even deeper disassembly and working with more parts that can easily break.
—

...

To echo was others have said, your external PSU is toast. They use horrible ELNA brand capacitors that sploosh their guts out as bad as SMD electrolytic caps do. Your supply is near death and the voltage output from it can fluctuate lower and higher than normal as those caps fail. I'd stop using it entirely until you've either gotten it recapped and cleaned VERY well or if you just pay up $10 for a generic aftermarket charger.

Other than the PSU, LCD panel, and the inverter board, the rest of the system should be all solid state capacitors.

With regards to plastic, these aren't the worst to deal with all things considered. The main things you have to watch out for are the hinge mounts, the clips for the display housing, and the screw mounts for the logic board and especially the drive cage. The drive cage mounts will fail with time alone due to mechanical stress I'd guess, best course is to patch them up as best you can with epoxy.

The hinge mounts on the other hand WILL absolutely fail with use no matter how careful you are. You have two options at that point.
1. Patch up the old hinge mounts with a generous helping of epoxy.
2. Trim the remains of the old ones off, sand the surface flush, and install one of these: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4391026
Both methods can and do work, although I'd personally recommend the 3D printed part if you feel like putting the effort in. They're a pain to install due to sanding the originals off completely, but doable with a few hours of work. One thing to note about installing these is that you'll almost certainly not be able to completely sand the plastic support "sticks" coming off the screw mounts flush with the corner of the case. This will lead to a fitment issue, which while not a fatal flaw, will leave you with a gap at the back of your display housing. To avoid this, simply sand back the 3D printed part itself.

PRAM Battery:
It's a lithium coin cell soldered to the main interconnect board. Not critical (yet) to remove, they don't usually leak. I haven't removed one myself (i really should) so I can't offer much help there, likely just have to desolder or clip it out though. Obviously be careful not to overheat the cell though, even if it's dead I can't see how it could be a good idea to overheat a lithium cell.


1. Not sure what you mean by the I/O board. Main logic board? Not necessary to remove it really. What door? The battery door?
2. Shield? I think some have a cover to protect against shocks from touching the high voltage components on there, but it really shouldn't be a big problem if you reuse it, especially now when the only people working on the system are hobbyists. Just make sure it's adhered in place. Don't see any reason why you couldn't reuse it?
3. You don't need to. The pots are soldered onto the inverter board in the bottom case, just lift the inverter board out and you'll have direct access to them.
4. This one's already been addressed by other people, just a couple screws and it pops out.

PSU: Is there a good, reliable aftermarket power supply that I can use with this computer? Is that the potential culprit of the screen being really bright, or is that due to the caps on the LCD?

Plastics: Would it be a good idea to epoxy those plastic posts/mounts while I have the machine apart before they fail completely? What is the best way to do that?

PRAM battery: Hmm... CR2034 (or something similar) soldered to the interconnect board. I'm thinking of maybe erring on the side of caution and removing it if possible, but I'm not sure if I'll replace it with a new battery like I've done in another one of my Macs.

1. I meant I/O door... sorry.
2. I believe you're correct... just a simple shield like what the compact Macs have over the analog board. I wonder if they told people to not reuse the ones on the compact Macs also. I'm guessing just to reduce likelihood of conductive debris getting stuck on the side, causing "problems" (to put it lightly) on the AB?

 

[3lectr1c]

You can get anything to crack open with enough persuasion
Most use a vice to crack open a 100 series PSU - they come apart real easy when you do. I got my dead one open like this and it's waiting on me to recap it next.
As for a modern replacement, there are a bunch of generics: https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Macintosh-APS-20U-ADP-17AB-Power/dp/B0764X1V3W
There's one. I wouldn't expect the best build quality or long-term reliability from one, but they're not really dangerous or anything like that. 7.5V is pretty low power and they don't need to be complex. I've got a couple from different brands and they've both worked fine for me so far. They're not the best ever made, but they're definitely better in my eyes than a 30 year old supply running on new caps simply because there's less age related stuff to fail.

As for the daughterboard - why do you want to remove it at all? You don't need to. If you do really need to for whatever reason I myself have never had issues rocking them back and forth. Just be careful like with anything. I'd guess the service manual was just overly cautious in general about those things.

And yes, the caps are on the LCD board itself. Not too tricky, but if you aren't good at soldering then send it off.

You can epoxy the old mounts or replace them, your choice. I'd recommend replacing the hinge mounts and epoxying the rest.
You don't need to remove the door to get the logic board out - but again why do you need to do that? Nothing to maintain there, unless you want to reinforce those screw posts, which are less likely to break I believe. They can, but only if you bang or drop the thing which will cause worse issues.

 

[AvadonDragon]

If you want some soldering practice - the power supply isn't TOO hard a job and you can easily just use a different power brick if you end up destroying it. You can even swap the internals from a new brick into the old housing to keep the original aesthetics. If you do get an aftermarket brick I'd look for 3Amp instead of matching the original 2Amp. They moved to a bigger 3Amp supply with the 180c and 2 amps was just barely adequate for the older machines. Plus with a generic aftermarket supply you might want a little extra umpf in case they are being generous with their specs. Of course replacing the spinning disk with a SCSI2SD solution will pull less power too.

Oh here's my original post about the two pencils in a vice method for opening the power brick.

 

[3lectr1c]

My 2A rated aftermarket supply will actually run my 180c. That one might actually be under-rated for once.

 

[AvadonDragon]

My 2A rated aftermarket supply will actually run my 180c. That one might actually be under-rated for once.

Depending on your circumstances you can get by with 2A. I had a PowerBook 170 running off my test bench power supply for a while with a bunch of accessories attached and noticed it spiking well over 2A sometimes. It would probably be fine if there were still a battery installed but I doubt many people have a working battery these days. Just thought I'd throw that out there. I'm sure Apple assumed there would be a working battery available if the system needed more power than the original power brick could provide at least for short bursts.

I thought it was interesting to note that the external display was overloading the power supply. That would suggest that the analog circuitry to drive a CRT is disabled to save power when there's no display connected. I kinda want to test that out and see how much more power it draws.

 

[3lectr1c]

Hmm interesting.
I actually DO have a working battery, it’s an aftermarket unbranded pack from…sometime? No idea, it came with my PowerBook 150 and I actually just got it to properly calibrate once last night - ran for 40 minutes. But regardless, my 180c runs off my aftermarket 2A supply with or without it.

 

[retr01]

That was what I used in high school - a PowerBook 145 like that. I remember it was "PowerBook 145B."

 

[3lectr1c]

Nice. The B variant is just about the same - it has 2MB more RAM soldered in to the CPU card, that was the only difference. It was also a bit cheaper and didn’t ship with system disks but that doesn’t matter today anymore.

 

[retr01]

Yeah, it shipped with 4MB of RAM. Expandable to 8MB with another 4MB RAM module that could be added. Whoa, at 25 Mhz, this was faster than one of my teachers' SE/30!

 

[gfuller]

The battery for my 165 is long toast. It bloated up inside the case, requiring me to partially disassemble the machine to extract. Thankfully didn't leak or cause any damage. I do hope to someday possibly rebuild the battery pack, but I'll probably let someone else do that since my soldering skills aren't very good and batteries are a huge risk.

Is there a good 3A supply I can use? I don't have the 165 adapter with me, so I'm not entirely sure of its pin-outs. I'll have to look tonight when at work. I might just stick with a 2A supply if finding a larger one will be a hassle.

The 145B got me to thinking: How difficult is it to upgrade the memory in the 165? I believe mine currently only has 8 MB, but the max is 14 MB. The 68030 in the 165 is clocked at 33 MHz, outpacing the 25 MHz '030 on the Mobius accelerator for my "SuperSE." Because my SuperSE uses the accelerator card, it can't run some software due to compatibility issues. The 165 is my only "'030-native" machine.

 

[eric]

Late to the post but here's my guide on opening and recapping the power supply - https://tinkerdifferent.com/threads/recapping-powerbook-100-series-7-5v-2a-ac-adapter.28/

Personally I wont turn on any PowerBook I get without recapping the screen first due to how much cap juice I've seen in the ones I've worked on. Recap guide https://mac84.net/web/macintosh-powerbook-160-lcd-display-recapping-guide/

 

[gfuller]

Sorry to resurrect this post... hoping to finally get started on this project.

First, on the 3D-printed hinge: Is there anyone with a 3D printer I can buy a made part from? I unfortunately don't have access to a printer. The local school has one, but I'm not sure if they'd let me print it there. Looking back at the replies, would coating it in epoxy be a suitable solution? One part of me would like to completely disassemble the machine and restore everything "properly" (remove the old hinge, install new 3D one, shore up existing plastic screw posts, etc.). Another part, however, just wants to open up the machine and do the necessary work to get it to function again (recap LCD and inverter board, purchase new PSU while saving current one to possibly recap eventually).

Second: I'm assuming it'd be a pretty good idea to go ahead and lubricate/clean the floppy drive? Are those drives difficult to disassemble and reassemble? I did the drive in my Classic a while back with some help.

It would be nice to finally experience System 7 in color, running on actual hardware. Plus I can use my the BlueSCSI (or the TheOldNet modem I purchased only a month or so before BlueSCSI WiFi connectivity was functional) for accessing WiFi in addition to solid-state storage.

 

[3lectr1c]

The hinge fix parts show up on eBay from time to time. Most bigger cities will probably have a print shop you can use, places like PCBway do it too I believe.
Epoxy does work but I’d recommend the hinge fix if possible, it should be stronger in theory.

 

[Daniel Hansen]

First, on the 3D-printed hinge: Is there anyone with a 3D printer I can buy a made part from? I unfortunately don't have access to a printer. The local school has one, but I'm not sure if they'd let me print it there. Looking back at the replies, would coating it in epoxy be a suitable solution? One part of me would like to completely disassemble the machine and restore everything "properly" (remove the old hinge, install new 3D one, shore up existing plastic screw posts, etc.). Another part, however, just wants to open up the machine and do the necessary work to get it to function again (recap LCD and inverter board, purchase new PSU while saving current one to possibly recap eventually).

What is the actual state of the hinge screw boss fixtures? If they're more or less solid, then a coating of super glue might be enough to add some needed strength. But if they're crumbling, best to go whole hog and install the 3D mounts. I've done the rebuild using various epoxies on various PB's, and honestly there's just too much force in that area for epoxy to last... I just redid by 170 with the 3D mounts and it's an order of magnitude better. If you know for sure you can't access a 3D printer in your area, then eBay is a good option (though, weirdly expensive)... perhaps someone here might be able to hook you up.

Second: I'm assuming it'd be a pretty good idea to go ahead and lubricate/clean the floppy drive? Are those drives difficult to disassemble and reassemble? I did the drive in my Classic a while back with some help.

They come apart easily enough, but I personally haven't had the need to refurbish any... perhaps I should? I haven't personally experienced any gummy lubricant or eject issues, and the flap on the front tends to keep anything nasty out.

 

[Yoda]

First, on the 3D-printed hinge: Is there anyone with a 3D printer I can buy a made part from?

I used https://printathing.com/ when I got a 3D-printed hinge support made for my 170. I used an STI file from thingiverse (actually https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4391026) at about $9 apiece, plus postage, in ABS. It was reasonably quick service too.