"Spicy O'clock" project has started

[JDW]

So, Spicy O'clockers in the Northern Hemisphere, how are your machines handling warmer ambient temperatures? Before we finally broke free of near freezing temperatures in the early morning hours, the room where my machine lives, would see ambient temps below 20C. Currently, with daytime highs fluctuating between 24/32C and my house thermostat set to 25.5C during waking hours, the ambient temperature is ~24C in this half underground room. For the past month, I have been doing some programming, which has me using the machine for some hours a day. Ten or so days ago, my LC475, overclocked to 49mhz and running System 7.6, would start to go unstable after an hour or so of use. CPU temps would be getting close to 50C as would the inside of the power supply case. The power supply seems to be the culprit, as there is no fan to dissipate the heat. My solution has been to remove the top cover and run a small fan, blowing on the side of the power supply. This keeps the internal temperature down to the low to mid 30's. I can run for hours with no stability issues at all now. The CPU runs about 10C degrees cooler with the case off (fan installed on heatsink), but if I don't run a fan onto the power supply, it eventually warms up enough to start causing stability issues again.

I'm not the most adept tinkerer, but perhaps I could extend the power lead wires, to where I could move the power supply outside the case, as running without the cover on is less than ideal!

To be honest, as I've mentioned before, I've not had the greatest experience with 7.6 or 8.1 at any temperature. 7.1 is rock solid for some reason. I would recommend trying 7.1 on your machine to see if you have the same kind of stability issues. If not, then it's the OS. If so, then it's a matter of CPU cooling (or power supply).

 

[nottomhanks]

Wanted to chime in here, didn’t someone have a special OS image that had certain extensions modified for the Spicy mod?

 

[yock1960]

To be honest, as I've mentioned before, I've not had the greatest experience with 7.6 or 8.1 at any temperature. 7.1 is rock solid for some reason. I would recommend trying 7.1 on your machine to see if you have the same kind of stability issues. If not, then it's the OS. If so, then it's a matter of CPU cooling (or power supply).

I'm just getting adjusted to 7.6...7.1...it's too old! I think I got onboard back in the day, at 7.5, so I struggle with the older Systems. It's a state of mind!

 

[yock1960]

Wanted to chime in here, didn’t someone have a special OS image that had certain extensions modified for the Spicy mod?

James would probably know. I don't remember seeing anything about that.

 

[Drake]

James would probably know. I don't remember seeing anything about that.

https://mega.nz/file/3S5CCJjC#V_5_QRFNW1_gJAyzTfWo7aLQ7KscUofmRk8CrfLKlI0

I have it hosted here, there are different OS installs so ensure you use System picker to choose which version you want to run.

 

[Kay K.M.Mods]

So, Spicy O'clockers in the Northern Hemisphere, how are your machines handling warmer ambient temperatures? Before we finally broke free of near freezing temperatures in the early morning hours, the room where my machine lives, would see ambient temps below 20C. Currently, with daytime highs fluctuating between 24/32C and my house thermostat set to 25.5C during waking hours, the ambient temperature is ~24C in this half underground room. For the past month, I have been doing some programming, which has me using the machine for some hours a day. Ten or so days ago, my LC475, overclocked to 49mhz and running System 7.6, would start to go unstable after an hour or so of use. CPU temps would be getting close to 50C as would the inside of the power supply case. The power supply seems to be the culprit, as there is no fan to dissipate the heat. My solution has been to remove the top cover and run a small fan, blowing on the side of the power supply. This keeps the internal temperature down to the low to mid 30's. I can run for hours with no stability issues at all now. The CPU runs about 10C degrees cooler with the case off (fan installed on heatsink), but if I don't run a fan onto the power supply, it eventually warms up enough to start causing stability issues again.

I'm not the most adept tinkerer, but perhaps I could extend the power lead wires, to where I could move the power supply outside the case, as running without the cover on is less than ideal!

Install the CPU fan first. Please refer to my machine.

 

[JDW]

I'm just getting adjusted to 7.6...7.1...it's too old! I think I got onboard back in the day, at 7.5, so I struggle with the older Systems. It's a state of mind!

It's easy to make 7.1 run well because several System Control panels and extensions from 7.5 work in 7.1. So 7.1 is mostly compatible with the major apps you want to use. The speed difference is pretty incredible too. System 7.5.5 is a snail compared to 7.1, and 7.6.1 is a tad slower than 7.5.5 on a 68k Mac, while 8.1 is dog slow on a 68k Mac.

All said, please try 7.1 for the sake of science. That's really why it takes me so long to complete my videos. It's all testing, testing and more testing!

 

[JDW]

Wanted to chime in here, didn’t someone have a special OS image that had certain extensions modified for the Spicy mod?

There is no Spicy-specific mod required. If you want to remove your stock Color Classic motherboard and put in an LC575 board, AKA Mystic, then you either need a special System Enabler (when running System 7.1) or a System file hack (for Systems higher than 7.1), or the VGA mod.

 

[yock1960]

It's easy to make 7.1 run well because several System Control panels and extensions from 7.5 work in 7.1. So 7.1 is mostly compatible with the major apps you want to use. The speed difference is pretty incredible too. System 7.5.5 is a snail compared to 7.1, and 7.6.1 is a tad slower than 7.5.5 on a 68k Mac, while 8.1 is dog slow on a 68k Mac.

All said, please try 7.1 for the sake of science. That's really why it takes me so long to complete my videos. It's all testing, testing and more testing!

Care to be more specific about the compatible control panels? And I assume that you mean 7.5.5 ones...not 7.6.

I may give it a go....for science!

 

[JDW]

@yock1960
Scroll down to Section 1.1.8 for the answer here:

System Software/Mac OS Questions - the pickle's Low-End Mac FAQ

the pickle's Low-End Mac FAQ: System/Mac OS software questions

macfaq.org

Some additional details here too.

 

[Gazmassive]

Hi all. Getting all the parts ready together for the Spicy O'Clock mod, but I'm having trouble where to order an MC88916DW80 PLL from.
UTSource says it has stocks, but after recently getting a rebranded 040, I'm a little hesitant that these wont be rebranded also or even fakes.
An eBay seller believes he has heaps, but at $45 US shipping (approx $60AUS) for a $9AUS part, seems a bit off.
@yock1960 Were yours genuine? I assume you've received them by now?
Also @Kay K.M.Mods , thanks so much for my BlueSCSI and organising shipping to Australia (the headache that it was). It works amazing.
I've read your blog on the LC475 power supply update, any chance of a full breakdown and parts to recreate the project?

Cheers!

 

[yock1960]

Hi all. Getting all the parts ready together for the Spicy O'Clock mod, but I'm having trouble where to order an MC88916DW80 PLL from.
UTSource says it has stocks, but after recently getting a rebranded 040, I'm a little hesitant that these wont be rebranded also or even fakes.
An eBay seller believes he has heaps, but at $45 US shipping (approx $60AUS) for a $9AUS part, seems a bit off.
@yock1960 Were yours genuine? I assume you've received them by now?
Also @Kay K.M.Mods , thanks so much for my BlueSCSI and organising shipping to Australia (the headache that it was). It works amazing.
I've read your blog on the LC475 power supply update, any chance of a full breakdown and parts to recreate the project?

Cheers!

I got my MC88196DW80 from UT Source and it's working nicely at 49mhz output.

 

[yock1960]

It's easy to make 7.1 run well because several System Control panels and extensions from 7.5 work in 7.1. So 7.1 is mostly compatible with the major apps you want to use. The speed difference is pretty incredible too. System 7.5.5 is a snail compared to 7.1, and 7.6.1 is a tad slower than 7.5.5 on a 68k Mac, while 8.1 is dog slow on a 68k Mac.

All said, please try 7.1 for the sake of science. That's really why it takes me so long to complete my videos. It's all testing, testing and more testing!

Well, as far as MacBench 3.0 is concerned, System 7.6 seems to be the sweet spot for my setup. Everything tests out virtually the same, except for the disk mix, where there is a significant difference. Note, I had to re-run the graphics mix for System 7.6, as when I rebooted, it was in thousands of colors instead of 256.

It is interesting that both 7.1 and 7.6 both beat even the faster clocked System 8.1 for graphics.

After installing 7.1, I did apply the System Update 3.0, but no other changes to make it more like the later systems. I will also add that I'm using SCSI2SD version 5.2.

 

[JDW]

@yock1960
You have no stability issues at all running OS 8.1? No random freezes or anything at 49MHz?

 

[yock1960]

@JDW

Yes, plenty, although I haven't run 8.1 for a few weeks, but that's why I finally went to 7.6, which has done wonderfully. I don't think I've had a startup freeze since making the switch. Another thing that I've noticed, is that whenever I had any kind of freeze when running System 8.1, Norton Utilities would always find a problem on the boot drive. If I didn't run Norton and fix it, freezes would increase. Norton doesn't always find a problem when running 7.6....although...I don't religiously run Norton when I get freezes, because the freezes don't seem to...self perpetuate.

I should probably run Norton more often under 7.6, just to get a better handle on that, since I've been having quite a few freezes...actually crashes...due to trying to figure out how to do something in Futurebasic, by using toolbox routines, for things that Futurebasic doesn't natively support.

 

[nottomhanks]

There is no Spicy-specific mod required. If you want to remove your stock Color Classic motherboard and put in an LC575 board, AKA Mystic, then you either need a special System Enabler (when running System 7.1) or a System file hack (for Systems higher than 7.1), or the VGA mod.

Ah good to know. I've done the VGA mod, so not necessary then.

 

[Mr. Fahrenheit]

Ah good to know. I've done the VGA mod, so not necessary then.

There is also a resistor swap mod that allows Mystic board to work at CC resolution without need for special enabler.

 

[iPhil64]

Hi @Kay K.M.Mods !

Just starting today with the Spicy O'Clock you sent me a while ago now, and I want so start with my Q660AV. Going through the post, I'm not sure someone has tried yet.

It sports an MC88920, so that should be good. I'm also lucky to have a 68040@33MHz stock, despite being clocked at 25 MHz.

As for the wiring, which "style" would you recommend ? I can see three different versions, and I'm not convinced of what I should use with mine. Photos below.

 

[Kay K.M.Mods]

Hi @iPhil64,

To be honest, I don't have this model, so I would like you to consider it as a recommendation based on my guess (*desk theory).
Please note that we cannot take responsibility even if you break it.

I think that it is not the black crystal oscillator in the image that outputs to the MC88920, but the silver square box. Maybe this crystal oscillator isn't working on the MC88920 alone, so I don't think it can be removed or replaced.

Spicy O'Clock wiring diagramsの画像

ameblo.jp

If there is a footprint that outputs to the MC88920 like this schematic, I think that you can remove the resistor or cut the foot print and interrupt the output from Spicy as it is there. I'm sorry it wasn't very helpful.

Please let us know if you succeed! Good luck!

 

[iPhil64]

Hi @iPhil64,

To be honest, I don't have this model, so I would like you to consider it as a recommendation based on my guess (*desk theory).
Please note that we cannot take responsibility even if you break it.

I think that it is not the black crystal oscillator in the image that outputs to the MC88920, but the silver square box. Maybe this crystal oscillator isn't working on the MC88920 alone, so I don't think it can be removed or replaced.

Spicy O'Clock wiring diagramsの画像

ameblo.jp

If there is a footprint that outputs to the MC88920 like this schematic, I think that you can remove the resistor or cut the foot print and interrupt the output from Spicy as it is there. I'm sorry it wasn't very helpful.

Please let us know if you succeed! Good luck!

I know it's my responsibility

So the black oscillator is 12.5 MHz, half of 25 MHz.
The other crystal is 55.5 MHz, which is, for sure, for the ATT 3210 DSP. (you can zoom on the following picture, from a different angle).

So I'm still pretty convinced this is the black crystal in my case.

In fact I've just had a look at the MC88920, and pin 8, which is SYNC is connected directly to pin 3 of the black crystal. So I have a confirmation
Now... SURPRISE, pin 3 of J36 is connected to that exact same pin. Was J36 meant for an external clock source ? Apple, what are you hiding ! A built-in overclocking connector (yes, I'm a bit excited...), it really looks like it, I'm tempted to solder a connector.

I also marked 2X_Q which feeds PCLK for the 68040.

I'm looking for 660AV schematics... I've seen some floating around, any source ?