The great LCD in a Color Classic thread. Well, I wish...

Piszigri

New Tinkerer
Mar 24, 2023
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So first things first - hello to everyone.

The reason for this post is that I am building a sort of "reverse-Mystic" or Reverse Takky, in the sense that the core idea of Takky -and of Mystic as well- is to replace the logic board with a more powerful one, leaving the original (albeit modded) Trinitron screen and analog board in the machine.

While this may have been a great idea twenty years ago, many things have happened since then. Color Classics have become scarce, for one. Second, the admittedly magnificent CRT of the CC is showing all its age, but most of all, the horribly built Analog Boards with their bean counter minded construction are slowly but surely all failing- and are unrepairable, due to many parts being custom and unobtanium (i-e- the FBT, the big CRT IC driver, all the switching PS transformers...).

I want to replace the original Analog board with a rebuilt one that includes a PSU, supporting circuitry and a 8.4" SVGA LCD from a POS terminal, original built-in microphone support, even stereo audio amplification, and this could be a solution for many owners of such Takky/Mystics that have overburnt AB and 640x480 driven CRTs to replace them completely. In my design everything is reversible, and no permanent modification is done. At this time, only Takky/Mystics are supported due to the fact that the original 512x384 resolution is unavailable in most LCD displays.

If this sounds familiar, it's because I started this thread back at 68KMLA, however i had contacted JDW because I had hit a wall in information - and I need help to complete this project. Specifically, there is missing information in regards to the pinout of the original analog board. Without this information, it seems that the logic boards installed into a CC with my SFX PSU adapter PCB fail to boot and instead give out a lot of grief. Some pins like pin 39 and pin 3 from the original AB edge connector, carry -5V unregulated, for example. I cannot find any info and cannot trace back everything on the original AB as i am not an EE.....
but, the main problem is that the analog board I am doing testing on is a failed board, without all the EHT portion and FBT.

So, I need some help from an experienced CC owner, that can trace the undocumented pins on the original and fully working AB connector, and also figure what communication is going between LB and AB of a fully booting Color Classic on so that I can replicate it and make my PCB transparent to the LB.

if and when I will be successful, I will release all Gerbers and details on how to perform the Reverse Takky and LCD mod, totally free, for anyone that wants to recover their Mystic - Takky CC to life again - and improve it with a 800x600 LCD screen too!

Original MLA thread:
https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/the-color-classic-lcd-project.44829/

Thank you JDW for your help and support!
 

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Kai Robinson

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Sep 2, 2021
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For 512x384 - you could get a 1024x768 (exactly double) LCD panel and use a 2x scaler?
 

Piszigri

New Tinkerer
Mar 24, 2023
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Hey Kai - yes, that is a very viable possibility, as the graphics stream of the lb is routed directly to a connector outputting rgb plus composite sync so a prescaler or other analog video device can easily be placed between the lcd monitor and lb. However, that is an easy detail once I figure out the problem preventing booting in the project… i feel Im so close. I really need some help in tracing back the pins and whatever protocol the cc follows!

eta:
one thing that could be checked, provided a fully working CC is available, is whether there’s a simple communication protocol like I2C going on with the big ASIC in the shielding that drives the CRT.
Or it could be simple as the brightness controls need to be “loaded” in some way - theyre disconnected at this time…..
 
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alxlab

Active Tinkerer
Sep 23, 2021
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www.alxlab.com
This sounds like an interesting project. You wouldn't happen to have the pinouts you've worked out so far posted anywhere would you? I didn't notice them on the original 68kmla post.

Regarding the edge connector of the logic board and analog board, we could probably make one out of a separate PCBs and pin headers.

The logic board would need a 2mm PCB. The analog board would need a 1.6mm PCB. The pin spacing is 2.54mm for the non power part.
 

Piszigri

New Tinkerer
Mar 24, 2023
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Hi, that is an interesting concept, I have to try and design something in DipTrace, maybe you got something there! Sure, once I vet. Ack from a week of well deserved holiday at the seaside i’ll post what I found out and maybe we can figure whats going on with the rest of the pins.
franco
 

eric

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Sep 2, 2021
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This looks like a great project! I've been trying to source a new CRT for my CC but have had no luck and broken tubes in shipping (even though very well packed)

Keep us updated on the status and if you need help - I'd be willing to dig out my broken CC parts to help make it whole again. (busy getting ready for vcf-mw the past few weeks!)
 
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Piszigri

New Tinkerer
Mar 24, 2023
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Hey Eric, I’m waiting for an intact harness and cage from a CC that a kind MLAer gifted me to build a functional but “open” cc that I can probe during operation to document each pin, so to duplicate it. I may need a healthy analog board for non-destructive testing at one point, but that is the next step…
up to now I have been working with the info published in all of the takky and mystic mod websites but it’s not enough! And already have found inconsistencies.
 

Piszigri

New Tinkerer
Mar 24, 2023
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Update: a cage and harness is on ghe way to me, courtesy of “cheesestraws”! And, I laid my hands on two Apple Original (tm) schematics, one of the LC-575 Logic board and the second of the Color Classic. Both detail the Foxconn connector with all signals therefore the goal is nearer than ever! A surprise is that according to the CC schematic notes there is a 640 resolution setting the Splice LB may be capable of, but it is only mentioned.
 

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Piszigri

New Tinkerer
Mar 24, 2023
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So, the surprise is not that “Hook” - or 5xx series - has a 640x480, rather that the Splice (or CC) may possibly drive a 5xx analog board for the higher res. Can anybody confirm that placing a CC LB in a 520-575 results in a functioning system? Sense lines are set on the AB after all, not the LB.
 

David Cook

New Tinkerer
Jul 20, 2023
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So, the surprise is not that “Hook” - or 5xx series - has a 640x480, rather that the Splice (or CC) may possibly drive a 5xx analog board for the higher res. Can anybody confirm that placing a CC LB in a 520-575 results in a functioning system? Sense lines are set on the AB after all, not the LB.
Color-Classic-Motherboard-in-Performa-550.jpg


Yes. It works fine and defaults to 640x480. This is an unmodified Color Classic motherboard (LB) in an unmodified 550 (analog board + display). Extra VRAM is not installed, hence 16 colors.
 

David Cook

New Tinkerer
Jul 20, 2023
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Upgrading the Color Classic board with +256KB of VRAM allows it to display 256 colors @ 640x480 when installed in the Performa 550.
 

Piszigri

New Tinkerer
Mar 24, 2023
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This makes the whole project even more interesting! The LCD in a CC will be compatible with LBs from the CC, CCII, 520, 550 and 575 - all with display resolution of 640x480! The 575 may also get 800x600 with this design. need to place a couple jumpers to set resolutions and it’s going to be great.
 
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