Too many categories

[jcs]

Just my opinion, but there are way too many categories and sub-categories. It's overwhelming, it makes it difficult to see new posts without actually following every individual thread, and it makes it harder to know where to post a new topic. I want to talk about networking software on my Mac Plus, does it go in Macintosh -> Compact Macs, or Software -> 68k, or Add-Ons, Peripherals, and Networking?

In my experience reading and moderating forums, it's better to start off with a small number of boards/categories to get people posting in the same areas and get to know each other first. If threads move too fast, you can always split up high-traffic categories into more refined ones later and move threads.

 

[Elemenoh]

I shared a workaround that I found helpful here. https://tinkerdifferent.com/threads/watched-forums-as-home-page.77/

 

[Kai Robinson]

Hi jcs! Thank you for your feedback

The layout for this so far isn't 100% fixed and can be tweaked.

The rationale for the category setup as it stands, is that we wanted to break things down in a 'by system' so if you wanted to network your mac plus, it'd go in the compact mac category, unless you wanted to talk about a specific expansion, in which case it would go in the addons/peripherals.

At least with Apple equipment, there's such a huge range of products - it can be overwhelming to figure out where something goes. We're not going to chastise for something being in the wrong section - it can always be moved.

After the first few weeks, we're going to be taking a look back at what worked, what didn't work, what needs tweaking for a better user experience

One of the great things about user feedback like yours, is that it allows us to see things from YOUR point of view and make tweaks accordingly. After all, this forum is for ALL of you, not just for us.

Thank you for bringing it to our attention - I would definitely recommend the workaround posted by @Elemenoh above, for the moment.

 

[reallyrandy]

That's good to hear that you guys are tweaking things as we go. To the OP's point, I posted something about a perfect "Bridge" Mac to connect new internet capable systems to older systems via LocalTalk<>Ethernet as well as USB, SCSI, floppy, etc. I wasn't really sure where to put the post though since encompasses all vintage Mac systems.

 

[Patrick]

I'm gonna throw my hat in the "too many categories" section.

My feeling is the ratio of categories to posts in those categories is out of balance.

I think I'm more in line with JCS and we should be adding subcategories when there is enough threads/posts to warrant it.
as it is now, when somebody posts in say a msx forum. the people who all hang out in the apple section won't see it. And some of them might like to!

(I am by no means saying we should just have one board/section. that would be chaos)

maybe we can group some of the boards together in a "etc" section or something. and then we can spin out system boards when it makes sense.

 

[alxlab]

I dunno I kinda like having all the separate categories. I can understand though that some stuff might be cross domain though. Usually I'm looking at the recent posts for interesting new topics that might popup

 

[Cameron_Talley]

Another vote for too many categories. Some of the categories have zero posts, or only a few. I know from my own forum browsing that I'm unlikely to look at a category if it only has a few posts.

 

[Kai Robinson]

The way i see it, the forum is only 12 days old, officially. Yes, there are some empty categories so far, but give it time

 

[alxlab]

The way i see it, the forum is only 12 days old, officially. Yes, there are some empty categories so far, but give it time

Just curious but what user count are we at now?

Edit:

Sorry I'm blind. I just answered my own question:

 

[JDW]

I agree with @Kai Robinson in that we need to see how more forum members react over time. For now, I enjoy using this little guy in the upper right corner of each forum in the list...

When you collapse forums that are of no interest to you, the sheer number of forums becomes less overwhelming. With that said, I believe that must be set in a cookie because when I reload in the same browser, everything I collapsed stays collapsed, but when I login using a new browser for the first time, everything is expanded again.

Anyway, I view the state of things right now as an SE/30 with numerous ways to expand, versus a Mac 128K that is extremely limited by design.

 

[Patrick]

TL;DR version: make it easier for me to read posts from ALL places. The current way its configured is very exhausting to just browse. let alone read the actual posts people make. Please Take that at face value. and try to accommodate as best as you can.

That carrot seems to only be on the dark theme of the site. it doesn't seem to be on the light theme of the site. and like the original mac, I prefer the light theme. Also, that would hide posts in the categories that i might want to check out.

I want to remind people that the goal was to make the forum better. to be more welcoming and encourage people to come back post about whatever retro computer (or not so retro) and have people to see those posts and reply if they want to. I.E. assume best intent.

This forum, as it is TODAY. is more like Yahoo in the 90's early 2000's, driving people to go use google. it wasn't simply the search results. Google was less overwhelming. Yahoo on the other side was plastered with stuff all over the place and very confusing to navigate.

It doesn't necessary have to be exactly remove categories as it was suggested. Perhaps there is another way. Maybe have it more of a tree. Social area, system specific area. etc. and then we can drill down from there. But avoid showing EVERYTHING in one GIANT single web page.

What i AM saying is that the forum as it stands now is ok with apple, because its at the top. However, I get exhausted trying to look for the general discussion, or to find the soap box. or the vendors. or the trading area. .. or the MSX category. (we have that one right?)

So i guess thats it. the problem I CURRENTLY have is that its hard to navigate and find what I want on the front page. I'm experiencing Information overload. and i think an update to how the information is presented can help with that.

 

[JDW]

@Patrick
I fully understand your sentiments. I recognize your feelings to be important too, because there are a good number of folks who really dislike Dark mode, for one reason or another. I believe a short summary of what you would like is this: a new Light theme, which at the very least offers the same clickable, content-collapsing carrot that is offered in the Dark them.

While I am a Founder of TinkerDifferent, I am not on the Board of Directors which makes those decisions now. My voice is on the same level as yours, but the good news is this forum was designed to have a responsive Feedback section. The Board doesn't overlook important Feedback requests like yours.

I won't be presumptive about what the Board will ultimately decide, but I can be transparent with you about the fact we have to pay money for the Dark theme, whereas the Light theme is free because it is the standard XenForo theme. We at first thought the Dark theme would be a one-off payment, but later we discovered (after we voted to implement it) that it actually has an annual recurring fee. Not sure why that is because themes shouldn't change much year to year, and therefore I think a recurring fee is rather excessive on the part of the theme creator, but it is what it is. There are some great Light themes available, although sadly not a Light version of the current Dark theme. Even so, those Light themes would cost money too, and that is playing a role in how the Board decides to proceed with theme changes based on forum member feedback like yours.


As for me, well, I'm at that age which is still young enough to appreciate Dark themes (so I never use the Light theme on this forum), yet I am old enough to understand those who dislike them.

If there is anyone else who shares the sentiments of Patrick regarding a Light theme and having collapsible content, I would encourage you to let your voices be heard as well.

 

[reallyrandy]

Regarding light and dark themes, I like a light theme but I'm on a 27" Retina iMac so dark mode is a must. Otherwise I would have giant bright light in my face all day.

I was not aware there was a recurring fee for the dark theme. I wonder if that might be a good project for some of you web devs out there to develop a nice dark theme for TD.

As far as too many categories, I agree with gingerbread man. I use New Posts to read but posting is dubious. I always say "Organization is not if YOU can find it, but if ANYONE can find it".

 

[Kai Robinson]

Personally, i'm not understanding what's the confusion when creating a post - there are indeed a lot of categories for different systems, but as far as i can see it, it's self-explanatory. Can you give me an example of what you're finding?

 

[reallyrandy]

Personally, i'm not understanding what's the confusion when creating a post - there are indeed a lot of categories for different systems, but as far as i can see it, it's self-explanatory. Can you give me an example of what you're finding?

Post #4 is a good example.

 

[Kai Robinson]

Pretty simple then: Vintage Apple - > Software

Obviously Sinclair, Acorn, Commodore sections aren't going to be relevant to your content, but i'd say that navigating the Vintage Apple section is simple enough. In your video, you're also including subforums in your browsing on mobile. Which, again, are easy enough to look at and rule out as being not relevant for where you wish to post.

For long articles, you could post it as a resource, we have some up as examples already.

Remember, we are not solely a Apple forum, we have thrown open the doors to all comers, from multiple platforms, and we want to cultivate participation in relevant forums/subforums to stop it all getting lost in an uncoordinated sea of threads.

 

[wottle]

Here's what I am confronted with when I post a new thread.

I lost count at 100 categories, but there are more than that! This is the polar opposite of a good user experience.

Remember the Apple mantra: simplify, simplify, simplify.

Or the famous quote: "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

I've always navigated to the subcategory I'll be posting in before hitting post. Then there's no issue selecting from a really long list. I can also check to see if there is a similar post to what I'm discussing.

Is there a reason you're posting a new thread from the root of the site?

 

[reallyrandy]

I've always navigated to the subcategory I'll be posting in before hitting post. Then there's no issue selecting from a really long list. I can also check to see if there is a similar post to what I'm discussing.

Is there a reason you're posting a new thread from the root of the site?

What subcategory would that be?

What subcategory do you navigate to when you want to post about a designer who worked on a bunch of different Macintosh software? or a perfect "bridge" machine? or a notable moment in Apple history? or asking how to identify a piece of hardware without knowing what it is?

Say I have a clamshell iBook solution I want to post. Should it go in the Powerbooks & iBooks section? or the Macintosh>PowerPC G3, G4 & G5 section? (Clamshells are G3s) If I didn't see the PB & iB section first, I would go to the Macintosh section since Powerbooks and iBooks are Macintoshes as are Macintosh XLs, btw.

What's the difference if you have 100 categories to choose from before or after you start the post? If you want to post about any of those topics above, and per your suggestion, you go to the category first, what category would that be? The fact that it's not obvious means it could be improved.

IMHO, splitting Mac 68k and PPC makes sense as does splitting desktop from portable (or luggable). Compact Macs from desktop series, etc. But further categorizing by slots or specific processor is too much. I think the top level Macintosh categories suffice just fine.

I think the gist of this thread is that often, you have to go digging to find where to put something as it's not obvious nor in front of you. And if it's not obvious, there's room for improvement.

Good talk.

 

[wottle]

I think your points have merit, but having massive categories for every PPC mac would result in a large set of posts you have to sift through when maybe all you care about is g4/g5s. It’s about trade offs and ultimately you’re arguing for one set of trade offs versus others arguing for a different set of trade-offs.

I’ve also posted about confusion over where to post on a Mac I wasn’t sure of. It was quickly and easily explained to me that the TAM shares architecture with a certain type of machine. It wasn’t a problem for me, but I understand your preference would be to just have it be a post under a larger category generically for all PPC macs. And if it’s not obvious, everyone doesn’t share that opinion.

Not really sure if I’m mis-reading the attitude in your post, but I was just sharing my opinion as a differing viewpoint. I think a better discussion would be working towards a solution that might satisfy both viewpoints.

Maybe there could be an option that ignores the subcategories. So for people that don’t like the granularity, it would just show topics. Obviously that still poses a problem for posting, because under the scenes the post would still belong to a subcategory. It an easy problem to solve for everyone, but I’m sure the tinkerDifferent leadership are considering their options to make it the best experience for everyone.

 

[z970]

I also think there are too many categories that are sometimes confusing / contradictory in nature. And at first glance, the sub-forum organization also feels much more catered towards 68k-based machines to an unbalanced degree.

Here's my solution that hopefully appeals to both crowds of simplicity and segmentation:

Apple Hardware

---

Motorola 68k Macs (1976 - 1995)

Motorola 68k Desktops & Laptops (someone more versed in the 68k machines should refine this one, like segmenting Apple I/II/III and Macintoshes by architecture)

Other Hardware (Newton, Pippin, etc. - more thought required)


PowerPC Macs (1994 - 2005)

PowerPC 60x Desktops & Laptops (Whatever models are applicable)

PowerPC G3 Desktops & Laptops (Power Macintosh G3, iMac G3, PowerBook G3, iBook G3)

PowerPC G4 Desktops & Laptops (Power Mac G4, iMac G4, eMac, Mac mini, Xserve G4, PowerBook G4, iBook G4)

PowerPC G5 Desktops (Power Mac G5, iMac G5, Xserve G5)


Intel Macs (2006 - 2020)

Intel Core Desktops & Laptops (Mac Pro '06 - '08, iMac '06 - '09, Mac mini '06 - '10, Xserve '06 - '08, MacBook Pro '06 - '09, MacBook '06 - '10, MacBook Air '08 - '10)

Intel Core iX Desktops & Laptops (Mac Pro '10 - '19, iMac '10 - '20, Mac mini '11 - '18, Xserve '09, MacBook Pro '10 - '20, MacBook '15 - '17, MacBook Air '11 - '20)


Apple Silicon Macs (2020 - Present)

Apple Silicon Desktops & Laptops


Apple Software

---

Classic Mac OS (1984 - 1999)

System 1 - 6

Mac OS 7 - 9


Mac OS X (2001 - 2015)

Mac OS X 10.0 - 10.6

Mac OS X 10.7 - 10.11


macOS (2016 - Present)

macOS 10.12 - 10.16

macOS 11 - Present


Or something like that, which can be modified further (to also include the iDevices in detail as well). Either way, keeping certain subcategories grouped together ensures that no unused forums go to waste, and that all sections see sustained activity.

I have no investment in the other platforms and therefore cannot share equivalent alternatives for them at this time. However, as Tinker Different right now seems to be mostly comprised of Vintage Apple users that have usually joined here from /r/VintageApple, Macintosh Garden, MacRumors, and the others (and was also founded by the people in Mac Yak, uses a disassembled Macintosh logo, and a modified vintage Apple marketing campaign slogan as part of its name), it goes without saying that the forums should probably be a little bit more centered to them for now, in my opinion.

Anyway, that is all.