Apple IIe Card: Q&A

[JDW]

And what if, in your plausible scenario, a Mac person experiencing a severe case of Apple IIe Card nostalgia does not have a Windows computer nor wants to use Windows?

Exactly! But I do wish to humbly thank Eric for the suggestion, as that app can help folks who prefer Windoze. (And yes, that's my deliberate and preferred spelling.)

---

Sadly, it seems that ImageConverter doesn't work to convert .po files because it cannot even recognize/see them! Odd because it's supposed to. If any of you can get it to work, please let me know. Video below (no sound), along with my failed .po file.

And yes, the required PC Exchange control panel is indeed loaded, so the lack thereof cannot be an excuse for why ImageConverter cannot see that .po file. Yet another mystery to unravel!

---

UPDATE
This page says both File TYPE & CREATOR must BOTH be set to "DISK" in order for ImageConverter to see .po images! Ack! Changed those and now I can open the .po image with ImageConverter, but one option is grayed out...



So I chose Copy ][+ and clicked OK, but the resulting image won't mount, even with the ProDOS extension installed. So I changed File TYPE to DDim & Creator to ddsk, but while that changes the icon to a normal Mac disk image, I get this error dialog when double-clicking it...



Any thoughts?

 

[JDW]

A method I've used to convert po to disk copy 4.2 images -
In CiderPress:
Tools -> Disk Image Converter -> Select .po file -> Select Disk Copy 4.2 disk image (.DSK) -> <get it to your vintage mac>.
Write it to the disk with whatever (I used Shrink Wrap 3.5)

After discovering that ImageConverter doesn't work on my 800K *.po image, I broke down, went to the Dark Side, and installed WINE so I could give CiderPress a try. I converted it to DiskCopy 4.2, named it "Dazzle.img" and then double-clicked that in Basilisk II, but nothing happens. Not sure if Type & Creator are correct, but changing them didn't allow me to open the image.

Again, the goal here is to...

Mount a *.po disk image on your vintage Mac so you can copy all its files onto a real 800K ProDOS-formatted 3.5" floppy disk inserted in the Mac's built-in floppy drive.

 

[JDW]

Well, I was hoping to start filming again this evening, but I ended up spending another several hours testing instead. Here are my new findings, which again break new ground as these details haven't been reported anywhere else...

1. I previously found that the older version 2.2.1 of the IIe Setup app allowed me to Format & Write to a real ProDOS floppy in my Color Classic Mystic's built-in drive. Tonight I discovered that only works if your 68040 CPU clock speed is about 40MHz or slower. When I used Spicy O'Clock to overclock to 44MHz, I then get a "Problem # 4" error dialog when I try to launch the IIe Setup app. The newest version 2.2.2d1 still works, but using that version means I cannot Format or Write to ProDOS floppies inside my Mystic's built-in floppy drive.



2. I installed ADFS on my Mac in hopes of mounting ProDOS images like .po and .2mg and .do at the Desktop. The GOOD NEWS is you can indeed mount the images in the Finder! But the BAD NEWS is as follows...

a) You must manually go through the trouble of changing the Creator to "pdos". (The file Type seems to be more flexible as to what it can be.)​

​

b) In many cases you must manually use ADFS to change the "Sector Order and Format" to be "Disk Copy" (so the image will mount in the Finder.​

​

​

c) When you launch the IIe Setup app, images mounted using ADFS correctly vanish from the Desktop like all ProDOS images do when mounted from a BlueSCSI, MacSD or FloppyEMU, but the problem is that none of the ADFS images have an icon present in the SmartPort screen! In other words, you cannot use your ADFS-mounted images with the IIe Card!!! ​

​

d) You can use ADFS to write your images to a real floppy in theory, but in practice, doing that gave me trouble in that my reads/writes to the floppy slowed down to about 1/10th of normal until I restarted! And then I found issues with the disk that was created.​

​

​

e) For some reason, my IIe Setup app's icon suddenly changed to a 5.25" floppy icon after installing and using ADFS, and the ADFS changed to that icon too, for reasons unknown.​

I spent a huge amount of time trying to fix that icon screw-up. The icon is supposed to look like this...​

​

​

In the end, I deleted ADFS, and then uninstalled all the IIe Card software, restarted and rebuilt the Desktop File on all my drives, then restarted, reinstalled the IIe Card software again, restarted, and then all was well. But I had to do that on my Mac's internal drives and my attached MacSD drives too because ADFS is like a virus in propagating that stupid little icon! ACK!​

​

​

And there you have it.

 

[nottomhanks]

It would be nice if the Spicy overclocking didn’t have any effect on Floppy issues. In a previous post, you mentioned a difference between the CC and 575 floppy drives. When building a Mystic, would it be better to also transplant the 575 floppy in there as well? Just curious what your thoughts are. Great work figuring all this out!!

 

[JDW]

When building a Mystic, would it be better to also transplant the 575 floppy in there as well?

No because the physical height of the two drives is not the same. The one in the LC575 is the type with black plastic drive door, one would need to have a custom made mounting bracket in order to get that type to sit at the right height in the drive slot of the Color Classic.

 

[nottomhanks]

Is it possible to put the 575 drive in the CC housing, and is there a benefit if you could?

 

[JDW]

Is it possible to put the 575 drive in the CC housing, and is there a benefit if you could?

As I said, you would need to design a custom bracket (to be 3D printed) in order to mount the LC575's drive at the proper height inside the Color Classic in order to use it. It would then be usable, of course. I am not a 3D designer. I lack the skills to make such a bracket. Therefore, I cannot give it a try when mounted in the CC.

What I do intend to try is Kay Koba's FlippyFloppy, whenever he gets the needed parts to ship out my kit. That will provide me with a toggle switch on back to switch between the internal floppy and a FloppyEMU (since two cannot be used at the same time). I will then need to ensure the FloppyEMU has the Macintosh firmware installed (otherwise, something might get fried with the Apple II firmware), and then see if that makes a difference.

But it would also be nice if there are any 68K coders among us to know what the specific differences are between the version 2.2.1 IIe Setup app and the version 2.2.2d1. If we can understand those changes, perhaps the app could be hacked in such a way that would allow the following:

1. Be able to Format & Write to ProDOS disks inserted into the Color Classic's internal floppy drive.​

2. Be able to function properly even when the LC575's CPU clock speed is overclocked far beyond 40MHz.​

Because, as I said, the v2.2.2d1 app works at 44MHz and even 49MHz. CPU clock speed is a not issue with that app version. I know because I tested it. (It works at 50MHz too, but I started getting display artifacts, probably because it was getting too hot inside, and it's still summer now in Japan.) So v2.2.2d1 is almost perfect. The LONE ISSUE in using v2.2.2d1 is that, for reasons unknown, it won't allow me to FORMAT or WRITE TO a ProDOS disk inserted into the CC's internal floppy drive. That's it.

 

[retr01]

Even if usng FileTyper, I am not sure .PO images will mount. I need to play around and see what I find. Is something afoot that the 68k Macs would not mount any disk image? Maybe. I think only specific disk images can be mounted. Sigh.

FileTyper - Macintosh Garden

Almost indispensable utility for changing file types and creator codes. It includes many powerful features such as batches, filtering, and directory searches. It can also create self-contained droplet apps that automatically change to preset type/creator codes.

macintoshgarden.org

 

[JDW]

Even if usng FileTyper, I am not sure .PO images will mount. I need to play around and see what I find. Is something afoot that the 68k Macs would not mount any disk image? Maybe. I think only specific disk images can be mounted. Sigh.

FileTyper - Macintosh Garden

Almost indispensable utility for changing file types and creator codes. It includes many powerful features such as batches, filtering, and directory searches. It can also create self-contained droplet apps that automatically change to preset type/creator codes.

macintoshgarden.org

When the image is mounted by a FloppyEMU or BlueSCSI or MacSD (either as a Composite or hacked into a BlueSCSI-compatible form that will work as a regular drive image), the images are visible on the Macintosh Desktop initially, then vanish when you launch IIe Setup (which is normal), then I see an icon for each image (except FloppyEMU SmartPort, which sadly only shows the lone image named "smart0..."), and I can drag whatever icons I want into the IIe Setup SMARTPORT section (up to 4 drives). But when the Mac mounts the images from a .po or .do or .2mg file using that ADFS "alpha" software, the icons vanish from the Desktop when you launch the IIe Setup app, but there are NO ICONS VISIBLE in the IIe Setup app's SMARTPORT section! Why? I don't know. Could it be ADFS? Yes, it could! Is there another way to mount .po or .do or .2mg images using the Mac only and NOT a BlueSCSI, FloppyEMU or MacSD? Well, I have been Googling like mad and haven't found another app which does it. Maybe Disk Jockey will venture into the realm of the AppleII someday and solve that problem for us. For now, I see no way of mounting those images with the Mac only.

 

[retr01]

I am still trying to find the proper technical documentation or manual from Apple that explains the file operations with the Macintosh classic OS with HFS enabled, including some early System versions, 6 and 7, and macOS 7.6, 8, and 9. I hope I can find an official list by Apple of what images can be mounted.

Then, figure out what part of the Finder or file manager determines which file types of disk images can be mounted. From there, some coders here can author an INIT (system extension) file to allow the mounting of additional disk images.

 

[eric]

After discovering that ImageConverter doesn't work on my 800K *.po image, I broke down, went to the Dark Side, and installed WINE so I could give CiderPress a try. I converted it to DiskCopy 4.2, named it "Dazzle.img" and then double-clicked that in Basilisk II, but nothing happens. Not sure if Type & Creator are correct, but changing them didn't allow me to open the image.

I copied it to a real mac and then used ShrinkWrap 3.5.1 and wrote it to a physical disk. This 3.5" 800k prodos disk booted.

Second, If you'd like to not use WINE you can compile the ciderpress disk utils yourself and run it completely on a mac - libre, and free of tyranny:

./iconv 1047_Apple_II_High_Speed_SCSI_Card_Utilities.po 1047_Apple_II_High_Speed_SCSI_Card_Utilities.DSK
Image Converter for Linux v1.0
Copyright (C) 2014 by faddenSoft.  All rights reserved.
Linked against DiskImg library v5.0.1
Log file is 'iconv-log.txt'

Converting in='1047_Apple_II_High_Speed_SCSI_Card_Utilities.po' out='1047_Apple_II_High_Speed_SCSI_Card_Utilities.DSK'
DOS volume number set to -1
Copying 1600 blocks

 

[JDW]

I copied it to a real mac and then used ShrinkWrap 3.5.1 and wrote it to a physical disk. This 3.5" 800k prodos disk booted.

How? I can't get that feature to work...

Second, If you'd like to not use WINE you can compile the ciderpress disk utils yourself and run it completely on a mac - libre, and free of tyranny:

./iconv 1047_Apple_II_High_Speed_SCSI_Card_Utilities.po 1047_Apple_II_High_Speed_SCSI_Card_Utilities.DSK
Image Converter for Linux v1.0
Copyright (C) 2014 by faddenSoft.  All rights reserved.
Linked against DiskImg library v5.0.1
Log file is 'iconv-log.txt'

Converting in='1047_Apple_II_High_Speed_SCSI_Card_Utilities.po' out='1047_Apple_II_High_Speed_SCSI_Card_Utilities.DSK'
DOS volume number set to -1
Copying 1600 blocks

So I need to copy/paste the following line in the MacOS Terminal and simply hit RETURN?

./iconv 1047_Apple_II_High_Speed_SCSI_Card_Utilities.po 1047_Apple_II_High_Speed_SCSI_Card_Utilities.DSK

 

[eric]

How? I can't get that feature to work...

It appears you are selecting a .po file - i thought you were converting the po to a disk copy 4.2 file. Edit: also you are in an emulator, how would you write to a physical 800k disk?

So I need to copy/paste the following line in the MacOS Terminal and simply hit RETURN?

Sure, once you download the ciderpress source and follow the build instructions written in ~2014 - freedom isn't free. Edit: to be clear this is just a joke - while possible, no one besides me would do this.

 

[JDW]

It appears you are selecting a .po file - i thought you were converting the po to a disk copy 4.2 file. Edit: also you are in an emulator, how would you write to a physical 800k disk?

I don't have access to my CC right now. But it appears the emulator isn't working with .dsk images I create in CiderPress for Windoze (via WINE), as I show clearly in this short video (no sound)...

 

[drzeissler]

Hi there my IIe card in my LC2 6.08. behaves like that:

Version 1.0 => Your apple IIe card is defective problem #1
Version 2.0 => Your apple IIe card is defective problem #1
Version 2.2.1d => boots to prodos-partition or local floppy driver 3,5", never boots to 5,25" drive (correct drive connected).

If I start ADTpro I never see the local 5,25 to format or write to.

Any suggestions what to do?

Thx
Doc

 

[drzeissler]

 

[drzeissler]

small progress...

 

[drzeissler]

last shot on this...no luck here

 

[drzeissler]

...final thoughts.... if there is a difference between the internal mac-floppy and the external floppy using via IIe card?
what about using a 3,5" external floppy on the IIe card...perhaps the floppy from the IIgs?
perhaps the floppy-controller on the IIe card is really defective and the internal floppy on the LC does not rely on controller of the IIe card and uses the internal mac-floppy-controller?

 

[drzeissler]

I am so dumb...the sweeping noise does not come from the power-supply... I copied the ADTpro version from the IIgs and this expects another modem, If I do not use 2.0.2 ADTpro and use 1.2.1 instead there is no high-pitched noise...but the floppy issue is still there and therefore not related to the high-picthed noise.