Color Classic Crash Chimes

[wottle]

I picked up a Color Classic this past weekend and it would not boot at all. However, the fans would power up if I removed the logic board and plugged it in. I started looking closer at the board, which appeared to be in pretty good shape (PRAM battery had been removed, didn't notice any damage from any leaking caps). I did use some alcohol to do some surface cleaning, but the board was pretty clean.

That's when I noticed one of the pins on the edge connector had been pulled back and was bent in half (I should have taken a picture). When trying to bend it back, the end of the pin broke off. I was able to solder the pin back in place (I'm not good at soldering, but it appeared to stay in place and keep in the channel that it was meant for. I'll throw some pictures when I have a chance to pull the board out (I'm trying to put as little stress on that pin as possible, so minimizing the number of times I'm pulling the board out).

Anyway, I was still unable to get the computer to do anything when the logic board was inserted. No lights, no chime, nothing except a faint sound of the CRT powering up when plugged in. However, I read somewhere about the ability to potentially revive a dead Color Classic by leaving it plugged in and turned on for an extended period of time. I felt like I had little left to lose, so I left it plugged in for a day. I actually forgot I had done it and when I remembered, I grabbed an ADB keyboard with power button, plugged it in, and hit the power button, expecting the same lack of activity.

However, this time, I actually got a power light on the front, a very quiet startup chime, followed by the boot crash chimes. While the boot crash chimes are on the second half I get the first of 3 generic beeps. I'm also not getting any picture on the screen. I'm guessing the 3 beeps may be an indication the RAM may be bad. And the board probably needs a re-cap, along with the Analog board / power supply.

So, What's the concensus on best next steps. Should I do a thorough load cleaning? If so, what soap do people use for the slack and scrub phase. Assuming I should remove the ROM chips? Given that I'm not sure what state the analog board is in, should I not bother with the logic board until I recap the Analog board?

Appreciate any advice you all can provide!

 

[wottle]

Real-time update: I tool the board out to take a picture, and decided to see if bad RAM could be causing the problem. I also thought I remember the Color Classic having RAM on the board. So I removed both RAM sticks and put the board back in, and fired it up. The Mac startup chime was still very week, but I got no coach chimes. Still got the 3 beeps, but, I actually got a picture, along with the mouse pointer. Eventually got a question mark disk, which I was expecting.

So, shut it down, plugged my RaSCSI into it with 7.5.3 loaded as the only drive, and started it back up. And it booted into 7.5.3. Shows 4 MB RAM!

Anyways, I still feel want to get this machine squared away. I'm worried about the recap job, since these boards are kind of hard to come by, so I may put it off until I do the SE/30 recap. I don't want anything to happen to that board, but feel like it will be easier to find a replacement if I destroy it trying to get the caps off. The twist and pull method scares the crap out of me so I'd rather not do it first on the Color Classic board.

Still, any advice for what I should prioritize would be greatly appreciated.

 

[wottle]

Alternatively, if @JDW wants to make a YouTube video on recapping the Color Classic analog and logic boards, I'd be happy to ship him my boards as demonstration devices.

 

[Mac84]

I'd start by getting some IPA (99% isopropyl alcohol) and a toothbrush and do some gentle scrubbing around the capacitors. It won't prevent them from leaking, but it will clear off some of the nasty stuff that is on there now and buy you some time.

 

[JDW]

Alternatively, if @JDW wants to make a YouTube video on recapping the Color Classic analog and logic boards, I'd be happy to ship him my boards as demonstration devices.

Thank you for the kind offer.

My 3rd installment in the Color Classic video series will be on the recapping of the LC575 Mystic motherboard, since my stock Color Classic board has already been recapped. And while that may disappoint some, please know that stock 68030 board is painfully slow. I mean, it's ripping your hair out slow, even with the optional FPU chip installed. The same 16MHz 68030 on an SE/30 is quite snappy, but not on the CC. On the CC, you click a menu and wait for it to draw, but with a Mystic board, it's so fast you can't see the menus draw at all. As if the CPU slowness wasn't bad enough, you have to contend with a 10MB RAM ceiling which is painfully limiting. I have 36MB on my Mystic board, which was the max RAM you could install back in the day, although you can add more than that these days.

I plan to do videos on changing the fan, swapping with a full FPU version 68040, over-clocking that replacement CPU (with fast 60ns VRAM SIMMs too), replacing the back panel with something unique, boosting the resolution to 640x480, and more.

My next video (#2) on the Mystic motherboard swap will be out within a week. I show benchmarks in that video comparing the Mystic board to the stock CC board. The speed difference is jaw-dropping phenomenal, and that's without a full 68040 with FPU too!

 

[nottomhanks]

Thank you for the kind offer.

My 3rd installment in the Color Classic video series will be on the recapping of the LC575 Mystic motherboard, since my stock Color Classic board has already been recapped. And while that may disappoint some, please know that stock 68030 board is painfully slow. I mean, it's ripping your hair out slow, even with the optional FPU chip installed. The same 16MHz 68030 on an SE/30 is quite snappy, but not on the CC. On the CC, you click a menu and wait for it to draw, but with a Mystic board, it's so fast you can't see the menus draw at all. As if the CPU slowness wasn't bad enough, you have to contend with a 10MB RAM ceiling which is painfully limiting. I have 36MB on my Mystic board, which was the max RAM you could install back in the day, although you can add more than that these days.

I plan to do videos on changing the fan, swapping with a full FPU version 68040, over-clocking that replacement CPU (with fast 60ns VRAM SIMMs too), replacing the back panel with something unique, boosting the resolution to 640x480, and more.

My next video (#2) on the Mystic motherboard swap will be out within a week. I show benchmarks in that video comparing the Mystic board to the stock CC board. The speed difference is jaw-dropping phenomenal, and that's without a full 68040 with FPU too!

I am having sound issues with my Mystic as well. I have the EFI shield grounded, but the sound is still very quiet coming through the built in speaker. The sound works great coming out of the jack though. I’m fairly sure I have some analog board issues, as there is one larger capacitor that hisses unless I put some pressure on it. If you put too much pressure on it, the whole machine shuts off. Anyway, would love to have you re-do the analog board so I can trust it fully. I have 128Mb of ram in it, want to put in those faster VRAM modules, and also get a RaSCSI with the Ethernet working.

 

[nottomhanks]

Real-time update: I tool the board out to take a picture, and decided to see if bad RAM could be causing the problem. I also thought I remember the Color Classic having RAM on the board. So I removed both RAM sticks and put the board back in, and fired it up. The Mac startup chime was still very week, but I got no coach chimes. Still got the 3 beeps, but, I actually got a picture, along with the mouse pointer. Eventually got a question mark disk, which I was expecting.

So, shut it down, plugged my RaSCSI into it with 7.5.3 loaded as the only drive, and started it back up. And it booted into 7.5.3. Shows 4 MB RAM!

Anyways, I still feel want to get this machine squared away. I'm worried about the recap job, since these boards are kind of hard to come by, so I may put it off until I do the SE/30 recap. I don't want anything to happen to that board, but feel like it will be easier to find a replacement if I destroy it trying to get the caps off. The twist and pull method scares the crap out of me so I'd rather not do it first on the Color Classic board.

Still, any advice for what I should prioritize would be greatly appreciated.

Curious, can you put the RaSCSI INSIDE the Mystic, and have you got the Ethernet function working?

 

[wottle]

Thank you for the kind offer.

My 3rd installment in the Color Classic video series will be on the recapping of the LC575 Mystic motherboard, since my stock Color Classic board has already been recapped. And while that may disappoint some, please know that stock 68030 board is painfully slow. I mean, it's ripping your hair out slow, even with the optional FPU chip installed. The same 16MHz 68030 on an SE/30 is quite snappy, but not on the CC. On the CC, you click a menu and wait for it to draw, but with a Mystic board, it's so fast you can't see the menus draw at all. As if the CPU slowness wasn't bad enough, you have to contend with a 10MB RAM ceiling which is painfully limiting. I have 36MB on my Mystic board, which was the max RAM you could install back in the day, although you can add more than that these days.

I plan to do videos on changing the fan, swapping with a full FPU version 68040, over-clocking that replacement CPU (with fast 60ns VRAM SIMMs too), replacing the back panel with something unique, boosting the resolution to 640x480, and more.

My next video (#2) on the Mystic motherboard swap will be out within a week. I show benchmarks in that video comparing the Mystic board to the stock CC board. The speed difference is jaw-dropping phenomenal, and that's without a full 68040 with FPU too!

Looking forward to that video! I'm definitely going to be keeping an eye out on for a Mystic board to swap in.

 

[wottle]

Curious, can you put the RaSCSI INSIDE the Mystic, and have you got the Ethernet function working?

I suppose I could put it inside, but it's my "Let's see if I can get this machine to boot" device. I have it in a 3d printed case with a portable battery pack and I plug it into devices as needed to test and /or load software on.

I haven't tried the SCSI ethernet emulation on the CC, but I did use it successfully on a Performa 6400 I was playing with and it worked fine. I'll give it a shot and confirm it works with the DaynaPort drivers on the CC.

Because I use the Pi Zero's WiFi, I'm wondering how the shielding might affect signal. But I may give it a shot. I'm sure there's somewhere I could pull 5v power from. I'll let you know if I try to tackle it.

I'm planning on disassembling and doing a thorough cleaning and retrobright of the case (it is very orange). Maybe I'll tackle the integrated RaSCSI when I reassemble.

 

[wottle]

FYI, here's a picture of the case, next to a retro-brighted SE case for comparison:

 

[JDW]

I’m fairly sure I have some analog board issues, as there is one larger capacitor that hisses unless I put some pressure on it. If you put too much pressure on it, the whole machine shuts off.

A hissing capacitor sounds quite interesting indeed. Would you mind shooting a short video of that cap (with audio) for us? Obviously, it needs to be replaced along with the other analog board electrolytic capacitors, but I am curious about which capacitor is hissing, as well as the precise sound it makes.

 

[AmigaOfRochester]

I'm available to recap if you need someone. I'm in NY. I can do the analog board as well, have all necessary parts stocked. I will even do a video if it pleases the class!

 

[nottomhanks]

A hissing capacitor sounds quite interesting indeed. Would you mind shooting a short video of that cap (with audio) for us? Obviously, it needs to be replaced along with the other analog board electrolytic capacitors, but I am curious about which capacitor is hissing, as well as the precise sound it makes.

 

[nottomhanks]

It's the tall Black Cap labelled 31B0. When you put pressure on it, the hissing goes away. I put a nylon blackstick in between the metal tabs at the back, and it puts enough pressure on the cap that it stops hissing, but a friend also resoldered it to no avail. Not sure if there's other issues with this thing, as the sound was working with the original CC board (the one that's in this video) and it's really quiet with the 575 board (it's been recapped, and sound works out of the speaker) that's in the CC now. Analog board definitely needs a recap, maybe more. Want to verify that the sound is working with your boards when I get it back.

 

[nottomhanks]

I had to trim the video and dumb down the quality so I could upload it successfully.

 

[JDW]

If you need to show long and detailed videos, I'd recommend YouTube with the video set to Unlisted, and then post a link.

I watched your video and listened to the sound. When you press on the capacitor, is it touching the transformer? If it does touch, are you sure the sound isn't coming from the transformer instead?

Those analog board caps are all stock, correct? (Nothing recapped on it?)

 

[wottle]

I'm available to recap if you need someone. I'm in NY. I can do the analog board as well, have all necessary parts stocked. I will even do a video if it pleases the class!

Not sure about the others, but I always enjoy a recapping video.

 

[nottomhanks]

If you need to show long and detailed videos, I'd recommend YouTube with the video set to Unlisted, and then post a link.

I watched your video and listened to the sound. When you press on the capacitor, is it touching the transformer? If it does touch, are you sure the sound isn't coming from the transformer instead?

Those analog board caps are all stock, correct? (Nothing recapped on it?)

I haven’t verified if the hissing is from the transformer, but you might be right about that. Maybe when I put pressure on the cap it makes the transformer behave itself. I will say that the hissing randomly comes and goes periodically. That is to say, it gets louder without me doing anything. Then sometimes it goes away again.

 

[AmigaOfRochester]

I haven’t verified if the hissing is from the transformer, but you might be right about that. Maybe when I put pressure on the cap it makes the transformer behave itself. I will say that the hissing randomly comes and goes periodically. That is to say, it gets louder without me doing anything. Then sometimes it goes away again.

I am wondering if the transformer has bad joints or something. I had this happen with a classic when the transformer was overamping.

 

[JDW]

I haven’t verified if the hissing is from the transformer, but you might be right about that.

Just grab a 100% plastic tool or wooden stick and press a bit on the transformer (not the capacitor) to see if that affects the hissing.