GlobalTalk - Global AppleTalk network for MARCHintosh 2024 (and beyond!)

[eric]

If you haven't seen over on Mastodon there's a group of us setting up a new, global, AppleTalk network!

People are sharing their files, printers, and even using EZChat AppleTalk to communicate.

Is this useful? No! Is it fun - heck yes!

See some wacky setups:

Mastodon

The original server operated by the Mastodon gGmbH non-profit

mastodon.social

Join the GlobalTalk revolution:

GlobalTalk Guide: https://marchintosh.com/globaltalk.html

Other Blog posts and guides
https://biosrhythm.com/?p=2767

 

[Mu0n]

I've spent 2-3 hours last night to try and retrace the steps from the article linked above. I've been unsuccessful, but I'm not deterred yet. In case my misteps helps out someone by saving time, here's what I've attempted.

Gear used:
SE/30 with 10+ mb RAM (I forget how much)
external DB25 BlueSCSI v2 with a pico W, firmware flashed 2 days ago before all this frenzy
sometimes connected to a SCSI cable that lets it extend out in reach on my desk for fast sd card swapping, sometimes not
Modem-Router combo from my ISP, nothing special, known to have shoddy range (like 30 feet), but here, it's sitting in the same room as all my equipment!

Prior to #globaltalk, 2 days ago:
inside my SE/30's 7.5.3 HDA volume, I followed the bluescsi v2 wiki on DaynaPort configuration and followed the steps, to success - I was able to ping it, and ping from it. I didn't have time to go do more stuff and browse the web and such.

WiFi DaynaPORT - BlueSCSI v2 Documentation

BlueSCSI v2 Documentation.

bluescsi.com

Note: my SE/30 will have occasional bus errors while booting cold, but it settles out after a few turn off turn back on attempts

#globaltalk installation attempts:
Attempt 1:
My SE/30 used a 7.5.3 HDA volume. I followed the #globaltalk article linked in the OP:
-ignore fresh install of 7.1
-ignore fresh install of update 3.0
-download Apple Internet Router 3.0
-download Router IP extension, both Apple Internet Router 3.0.1 and Router-IP Extension.dsk
-download Network Software Installer 1.4.5

Noting that .img files from Apple Interner Router 3.0 would not mount, I installed ShrinkWrap so that I could drop .img files on its alias so I can now mount disk images as virtual volumes.

The very first software to install, Apple Internet Router 3.0, FAILED because it complained about a file already present that I must move out called "Network", but I could see no such file anywhere (root of my volume, system folder, control panel, extension, etc). I tried to File Find it, to no avail.
I now know, well after the fact that it's a hidden file that must be made visible using ResEdit. I found that in a guide online hours after I abandoned this attempt.

Attempt 2:
use Paul Rickard's lean System 7.1 HDA volume that he made for his Quadra 605 - apparently, all that's needed is to punch in the IP address. Fine!

Very first attempt to try to let it sit besides my other volumes, sad mac errors nonstop.

Attempt 3:
Format a spare 64GB sdxc card I have using SD Card formatter, checking in Overwrite for a length full format + only put the System 7.1 HDA volume in (+ the DaynaPort scsi dummy file in ID 4 to enable wifi). Power through sad macs and bus error by enough turn off turn on, I can get it to boot stable now.

I WAS ABLE TO GET BACK to the point where MacTCP is activated, properly set up and can let me ping from and ping to! But it's not every bootup, unfortunately. So there's something fishy going on with the home wifi.

When I get back home, I'll analyze the channels and all that mess and make sure the pico W is nearer to the router (it's barely 6 feet away though, but there's a Mac Plus as an obstacle in-between....).

 

[davewongillies]

I WAS ABLE TO GET BACK to the point where MacTCP is activated, properly set up and can let me ping from and ping to! But it's not every bootup, unfortunately. So there's something fishy going on with the home wifi.

I've had similar problems with the BlueSCSI V2 on my Mac Classic II and wifi while using MacTCP as well. Even though it was configured on the sd card it would regularly not connect to my wifi network even though the AP was a foot away. To force the wifi connection I used the BlueSCSI Wi-Fi Desk Accessory to force the connection whenever I needed it. I've since upgraded that Mac to use OpenTransport and I haven't noticed it happening now (although I've been using it less on the network since I upgraded, so its entirely possible its still happening and I just haven't noticed).

 

[mejs]

Weirdly, I had no issues at all getting started with just an SE/30, BlueSCSI V2 and Paul Rickard's System 7.1 HDA volume with Apple Internet Router pre-installed.

I'll look tonight if I can identify anything special about my setup that could be helpful to others. The only "different" thing about it is that I'm running the System OS from an external BlueSCSI V1, while the V2 is just handling WiFi.

Also, I did have to move an access point right next to the computer for a stable connection.

 

[Mu0n]

I've committed to:

System 7.1
MacTCP
No Open Transport (that one makes sense with later System 7 versions I think!)

Then with some great help from Eric Helgeson mostly and Tom Barber at a key juncture, I was able to figure out how to navigate the guide with a DaynaPort Bluescsiv2.

Most of my stumbling blocks is assumed Mac networking knowledge that I've never had because I had moved on the PC side far before our computers at home were linked.

I was able to send out this macpaint print job to Paul Rickards of Mastodon and if all went well, to our own esteemed Eric Helgeson as well!

I was able to leech a few files off of a few ethertalk shared volumes as well.

I'm hosting my own but I have yet to figure out the numbers to share out to other people on the Sheets document.

 

[Mu0n]

Everything works now.

In Control Panels/Network, I go from LocalTalk Built-In to Ethertalk Alternative
I've enable folder sharing, enabled guests to do what they want and people have dumped stuff in it.
I've successfully hosted an EZ Chat

I found a Mod Tracker out there (never used one for that class of Mac before) and I wanted to send myself some .MOD music files from my PC, so I used these python commands:

pip3 install pyftpdlib
python -m pyftpdlib --nat-address=192.168.0.198 -p 21 --username=yourusername--password=yourpassword

and I can successfully reach that folder using Netscape 2 from my Mac using the old school ftp://yourusername:[email protected]:21

I was able to download them and let the player play them as is, without having to mess with creator and file types in resedit:

it struggled a bit at first, but who knows if it was due to ongoing connections. it took a full 2 minutes to get started, was choppy at first, but on the 2nd playthrough it was fluid

 

[davewongillies]

I found a Mod Tracker out there

What was the name of the mod tracker app that you're using?

 

[Mu0n]

What was the name of the mod tracker app that you're using?

Mod Tracker 1.2

 

[Mu0n]

Karl Baron released a hypercard stack that allows chat with Cairo fonts:

 

[Mu0n]

This is a one-stop shop .sit file to get set up with #globaltalk that can work with any Expander running under System 7.1. This would have been HIGHLY useful to me 2 days ago.

AppleTalk 2024 MARCHintosh Project

Update 3 (March 8): The Quadra800 as AIR is totally stable, I’m enjoying all the fun things on other sites (using a SE/30 as workstation) and playing with getting screenshots converted back a…

dillernet.com

provided from andy diller on Mastodon @[email protected]

 

[atariorbit]

This is a one-stop shop .sit file to get set up with #globaltalk that can work with any Expander running under System 7.1. This would have been HIGHLY useful to me 2 days ago.

AppleTalk 2024 MARCHintosh Project

Update 3 (March 8): The Quadra800 as AIR is totally stable, I’m enjoying all the fun things on other sites (using a SE/30 as workstation) and playing with getting screenshots converted back a…

dillernet.com

provided from andy diller on Mastodon @[email protected]

I am here! Thanks for posting it. I hope it helps others. I'm not so much of a forum person, but I'm on discord. Ask me anything there or masto.

-andy

 

[mejs]

Here's my first #GlobalTalk blog post! How to connect your emulated Mac running in vMac to your #GlobalTalk connected AppleTalk zone by using TashTalk

(this description is a mouthful)

Using TashTalk with Mini vMac to participate in #GlobalTalk from your emulated Mac - Vlado Vince

It’s MARCHintosh! The month when the vintage computing community celebrates the classic Macintosh experience. This MARCHintosh started with a bang – seemingly overnight, the #GlobalTalk network took over Mastodon and soon many of us were networking each other’s disparate home AppleTalk networks...

blog.vladovince.com

 

[eric]

@mejs you beat me to it! I just got mine setup - but my instructions differ quite a bit from yours.

• I installed bookworm 64bit RPi OS (on a Pi4 as my PiZero was not wifi)
• I installed the following packages

  apt install git python3-serial

• I needed to enable the serial port:

Start sudo raspi-config and find serial in the Interfaces menu.
Answer NO to the question about login shell.
Answer YES to the question about serial hardware port.

• My serial was under /dev/serial0 - eg:

  ./tashtalkd -d /dev/serial0

• I used my fork of minivmac with the new options (i'll provide prebuilt binaries for linux/windows/mac soon)

 

[fourteentones14]

I saw a post on Mastodon that somebody was able to do this with Basilisk II in the emulated env, does anybody have any pointers on how it should work? Unfortunately I don't have a 68k mac with ethernet to run AIR on!

 

[eric]

BII networking usually requires a special network interface setup. For emulation though europlus has the router running in QEMU 68k https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/00fS8PY6EgpdjW5_XEMHxQ_9g#GlobalTalk-Setup-v1.0.1

 

[Tashtari]

Aha, I was wondering why my entire stock of TashTalk hats and kits suddenly sold out... I've got some more PCBs on the way so I'll be able to put together some more kits when those arrive.

@mejs Thanks for the blog post! One detail, though, it's not TashTalk that has a wifi problem - as I understand it, it's more along the lines that a number of wifi routers/APs have a problem with handling EtherTalk frames. This thread has more detail if anyone's interested. In any case, there shouldn't be any problem with Wifi as long as you're bridging LocalTalk to LToUDP using a TashTalk hat and tashtalkd. (You can also do this using AirTalk, which only uses wifi.)

 

[Mu0n]

Made a video of my impressions of the first 4-5 days I spent getting my Mac SE/30 on #globaltalk

 

[NJRoadfan]

I don't have a Mastodon account, so I'll leave my comments here. Feel free to relay them to the community. If anyone has questions regarding netatalk usage or problems, both client and server side, let me know here or on the various forums I'm on.

Looks like all those improvements made to papd to work with CUPS in netatalk are getting a through workout. Nice to see it working "out of the box" with things like label printers! For those that see this, I am aware that the CUPS-PDF printer produces screwed up output. The problem is with the driver and not papd or CUPS+CUPSFilters. For some reason, it does not interpret the output from the various Apple LaserWriter drivers properly. You can use the ippeveprinter program included with CUPS to create a virtual PDF printer that works correctly if needed.

For those trying to use AppleTalk natively over WiFi (ex: PowerBooks with Airport cards, or RPis running netatalk), there are modern routers that properly handle the packets. Anything running Linux based firmware like ddwrt or openwrt should work fine. I have also tested the Netgear R7800 with its stock firmware and it handles it properly as well.

 

[Mu0n]

MINI QEMU guide for Windows 11 (etc) - host a System 7.1 Quadra 800 equivalent inside the QEMU emulator, so you can join the fun going on in #globaltalk via appletalk​

these are my notes on the TONS of help I received over the last days. Couldn't have figured this out on my own without stopping in frustration. thanks to all who helped (nulleric, Ian Scott, Ron, europlus, etc)

Past experience:

• absolute 0 with QEMU (I learned it was a thing a week ago)
• no knowledge about setting networks and virtual networks above the basic minimum level
• I come "strong enough" from the Mac side by having had a SE/30 connected to globaltalk for days and ironed out issues on that side
• one guide I've used at first to do all this was from here: https://www.emaculation.com/doku.php/m68k-qemu-on-windows but I still needed help on the network configuration side inside Windows 11 (thanks Ian Scott!)

Unsure steps:

• Might need an install of SDL graphics on windows, who knows since I've used plenty of miscellaneous projects and hobby programs over the last 3 months
• Port Forwarding to UDP port 387 was necessary to get the SE/30 to work on my home network, I'm guessing it's needed for QEMU as well. Right?

Still needed (as in, this is a need I have, it isn't necessary for this guide. think of it as a neat extra if we figured it out)

• a way to access a FTP that I'm hosting somewhere on my local network (from either a modern PC using the python script ftpdlib, or from even a VINTAGE PC LOLz, like my weecee running MTCP's FTPSRV tool), from the emulated Mac in QEMU. I can do it from my SE/30 using Netscape 2.2 url bar FTP addresses, but not from the same browser inside of QEMU......

Officials steps:

• YOU WILL NEED to request to be added to a list of people who can access the addresses of the network and be manually approved. Read this guide from @Mac84 fully https://marchintosh.com/globaltalk.html
• QEMU's official website is this (has various builds for various platforms): https://www.qemu.org/download/
• I just clicked on another link to get me to 64-bit executable for windows 11 here (it is linked from the above line's website): https://qemu.weilnetz.de/w64/ I got the qemu-w64-setup-20231224.exe there, there might be a newer version by the time you read this.
• get a pre-installed set of volumes + quadra 800 rom in this file from europlus: https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0e1bjIckqvSFbhMYCFBKuQFww#GlobalTalk-Setup-v1.0.3
• europlus' instructions and ".command" file are set for linux usage, so do this to adapt this to Windows:
  • rename the .command file to .bat
  • add the emulator's folder to your System environment PATH variable
  • edit its content to use something like:

qemu-system-m68k.exe ^
-M q800 ^
-m 128 ^
-g 1152x870x8 ^
-display sdl ^
-bios Q800.ROM ^
-rtc base=localtime ^
-nic tap,model=dp83932,mac=08:00:07:12:34:56,ifname=TapQemu1 ^
-drive file=pram.img,format=raw,if=mtd ^
-device scsi-hd,scsi-id=0,drive=hd0 ^
-device scsi-hd,scsi-id=3,drive=cd3 ^
-drive format=raw,media=disk,if=none,id=hd0,file=GlobalTalk_HD.img ^
-drive format=raw,media=cdrom,if=none,id=cd3,file=Sys7.1-GlobalTalk_Install.img ^

• note that I changed the nature of the -nic command completely, from vmnet provided in europlus' initial file, to tap in this edited version.
• note the name of the network I put in bold in the above .bat file instructions
• note that the backslashes that are used to put a long command on several lines have been replaced by the windows variant of ^.
• Disk Jockey can be used to make new images (thanks Ron), make sure you select the BlueSCSI format https://diskjockey.onegeekarmy.eu/
  
  
• go to openvpn and get Windows 64-bit MSI installer for the TAP https://openvpn.net/community-downloads/ and install it
• once installed go to Windows "View network connections" (ie typing that in the Start search bar)
  
• rename the TAP-Windows Adapter V9 to "TapQemu1" so that the batch file recognizes it when it launches QEMU later
• ctrl-left click on both your regular internet providing network and this Qemu1 network so that they are both selected at the same time
• right click on the selection and choose "Add to Bridge"
• Launch QEMU by running your edited batch file
• Deal with control panel MacTCP first. Use a new IP address in manual mode like you would normally on your network, use your regular physical router's gateway IP in "More..", reboot
• Deal with control panel Network second, make sure EtherTalk built-in is selected
• Open up the provided Router Manager and follow the instructions like seen above in this thread
• (tip from Ron) TARDIS (the time sync app) doesn't actually seem to work well in QEMU... or gets stuck on the first server you sync with (even surviving clearing the PRAM)... so if you still have that in your europlus provided image, you can move it out of the system folder.

 

[benfranske]

Has anyone tried using TashRouter to router between a local EtherTalk network and GlobalTalk instead of using Apple Internet Router?

Edit: I'm not sure if the AIR "IP Tunnel" feature is supported in TashRouter. A quick look indicates it is not, and would have to be built as a new port type in TashRouter, though there would be other handy uses for tunneling over IP so it may be a worthwhile endeavor.