Logic Board - Macintosh SE Reloaded

[Kai Robinson]

Just to clarify - the SWIM chip is not a ROM or a PLD type device, it's a custom ASIC - not programmed in any way - it just works. Just needs to be soldered to the adapter PCB to be used. The ROM's of course would need to be burned and soldered to the adapters to get the FDHD ROM's working with it.

For those, i'm seeing plenty of these in stock, at least in the UK: https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDet...9SF010A-55-4C-NHE?qs=uHi2/QoPa5CuqbFkemqQig==

Which should work just fine.

However, i feel this bears repeating - there is *NO* pressure from anyone here to put time into the project or for a 4th youtube video. I know how manic things must be for you there - remember, real life takes priority and you should take some time out for yourself - even if it's just to spend some time watching Star Trek: Strange New Worlds!

Your viewers are hooked on the project, and they'll wait - anyone that's impatient can just go and sulk instead!

 

[JDW]

Do those [FWB & Speedometer4] apps work fine with the SE/30 and other Macs?

Yes, they work fine on my faster Macs and don't generate a Trap error like I am seeing on the SE.

I will answer your other questions at a later time.

Just to clarify - the SWIM chip is not a ROM or a PLD type device, it's a custom ASIC - not programmed in any way - it just works.

Thanks, Kai. I feel a bit embarrassed since I believe that is about the 4th time you've reminded me the chip you sent to me is in fact an Apple branded ASIC! When I rush, I overlook the little things, which often are the important things!

there is *NO* pressure from anyone here to put time into the project or for a 4th youtube video. I know how manic things must be for you there - remember, real life takes priority and you should take some time out for yourself - even if it's just to spend some time watching Star Trek: Strange New Worlds!

Your viewers are hooked on the project, and they'll wait - anyone that's impatient can just go and sulk instead!

I appreciate that. I filmed last night after work, and will focus on that for now. Most of my testing is done, and I am satisfied the SE Reloaded board is working like a stock board, so filming some of that testing for others will help them see it's perfectly safe to do the build and enjoy creating the heart and soul of a Mac, using your amazing reverse engineering handiwork. Without your having done all that hard work Kai, this thread wouldn't even exist. Thanks for that, and for all the things you kindly shipped to me to make these videos possible!

I will now go silent for a while to work on the SE Reloaded video finale!

 

[YMK]

MacSD firmware v1.1.1 fixes the SCSI Director crash on the SE.

 

[JDW]

MacSD firmware v1.1.1 fixes the SCSI Director crash on the SE.

Just to let everyone know, I did confirm the MacSD firmware update fix works in SCSI Director Pro 2.1.7 and 4.0. So that largely answers the questions @retr01 had which I did not answer.

Unless a fellow SE owner (with old ROMs & IWM) can prove me wrong, I will just assume for now that Speedometer 4 & FWB HD Toolkit apps are incompatible with the SE (and I guess the Mac Plus too), which is why they both throw a "Trap" error, as I mentioned previously.

System 0.85 and the original Guided Tour for the 128K work on my Mac512, but I can't remember if I tested that with the 64K or 128K ROMs or both, and I lack the time to test that now. As to using Mac 128K simulation with Mini vMac, I've never been able to get that to work, even with a known good ROM. If anyone has been able to get Mini vMac to work fine with System 0.85 and the original Guided Tour, then you can report that, but such isn't critical for my testing work on the SE Reloaded motherboard. I am content knowing that System 0.97 and Finder 1.0 works fine on the SE (with old ROMs).

I will now focus on my SE Reloaded Finale video and report back when that is finished.

 

[iPhil64]

Hi all ! Just started to assemble my red (MacEffects) and blue (thank you again Kai) PCBs.Thanks to @JDW BOM and help, things are getting smooth so far.

Waiting for some components from UT Source or others, and thinking about the "non sourceable" components, ie going scrapping or using the various alternatives.

If you"re interested, drop me your email, I will invite you to a shared iCloud photo album.

 

[JDW]

Doing two boards at once is pretty amazing! They both look absolutely beautiful, Philippe! And you are doing RAM too! Fabulous!

Also, thank you for telling me about the error on my BOM. I just corrected the UT Source link for U1C (SONY SND chip).

By the way, I was examining the recent pic you posted. How well does your 60/40 solder flow through the joints versus your 62/36? (What I show in my video is 60/40.)

 

[tmtrains]

Hello,

Today I received the 26LS32 ICs from UTSource (quick service as usual), but sadly, these were the "wrong" kind, as in they aren't DIP package, but the SOP16 package.

Could I use an adapter (like this one) for these?

(Edit: Upon further review, I don't think these would physically fit next each other on the board, as the U1C to U4C sockets are pretty tightly packed)

 

[JDW]

I received the 26LS32 ICs from UTSource (quick service as usual), but sadly, these were the "wrong" kind, as in they aren't DIP package, but the SOP16 package.

The link to those in my BOM leads to the DIP IC...

AM26LS32PC Price - AM26LS32PC in stock - Buy AM26LS32PC on Utsource.net

Description: The AM26LS32PC is a quad differential line receiver designed to meet the requirements of EIA Standard RS-422. Features: -Inputs are TTL-Voltage Com

www.utsource.net

Are you saying that is the exact item you purchased but you received the SOP package due to a mistake by UT Source? If so, you need to contact them about that.

Could I use an adapter (like this one) for these?

(Edit: Upon further review, I don't think these would physically fit next each other on the board, as the U1C to U4C sockets are pretty tightly packed)

I agree. Plus I am concerned about the height of that adapter too.

 

[YMK]

By the way, I was examining the recent pic you posted. How well does your 60/40 solder flow through the joints versus your 62/36? (What I show in my video is 60/40.)

Also curious, since I didn't know 62/36 existed. I do like 63/37 over 60/40 though.

 

[retr01]

Interesting. I was not aware that solder rosin varied from 60/40. I learned something new.

 

[tmtrains]

The link to those in my BOM leads to the DIP IC...

AM26LS32PC Price - AM26LS32PC in stock - Buy AM26LS32PC on Utsource.net

Description: The AM26LS32PC is a quad differential line receiver designed to meet the requirements of EIA Standard RS-422. Features: -Inputs are TTL-Voltage Com

www.utsource.net

View attachment 6561

Are you saying that is the exact item you purchased but you received the SOP package due to a mistake by UT Source? If so, you need to contact them about that.



I agree. Plus I am concerned about the height of that adapter too.

Thank you. I likely ordered them before your BOM was complete, and didn't double check that I was ordering the correct packaging.

 

[iPhil64]

Doing two boards at once is pretty amazing! They both look absolutely beautiful, Philippe! And you are doing RAM too! Fabulous!

Also, thank you for telling me about the error on my BOM. I just corrected the UT Source link for U1C (SONY SND chip).

By the way, I was examining the recent pic you posted. How well does your 60/40 solder flow through the joints versus your 62/36? (What I show in my video is 60/40.)

View attachment 6515

Just finished the blue one with everything I can do for now. Now waiting for sockets and UTSource components.

On the topic of sockets, I tried to order the SIMM sockets as you suggested in your BOM from Phoenix Enterprises. After enquiry (no online order outside US+Canada), they sent me a pretty abrupt email requiring a minimum order of $500 USD + shipping (at their discretion on shipment). Honestly, unless I can find someone else to make a grouped purchasing, this would be a ridiculous price. I may have found some options on eBay.

On the other hand, EXXOS and UTSource were very reactive and reasonable in price.

I ended up ordering all the other sockets from Digikeys.

As for solder !

I have mainly (90%) used the 60/40 which flowed well enough through the boards. I used the 62/36 for bigger holes like the main connectors on the back.
62/36 does flow even better, but there is a huge caveat, it is highly "fluxed" (5 flux cores), which is certainly the reason why it flows so well, but the residuse that are left on the PCBs are horrendous. Honestly, it even literally sparkles around, and could I found resin residues on my finger nails !

Oddly enough by the way, the solder flowed slightly better on the red version from MacEffects. I have the impression the holes are just slightly larger and the coating could be different as well. Nothing major though.

Oh @JDW ! in the videos you do mention that the serial / ADB ports seem to go a bit too much out of the board, I don't have that impression on any of my two boards, where the connectors seem very similar to what I can see on genuine Apple boards. I currently do not have an SE board for comparison, but I have just compared with LC, LCII, LCIII, IISi and Q660AV (all the boards currently at work on my bench... no comment), and they really look similar.

Here are some pics, by the way, you can see the ugly resin residue from the 62/36. If you compare with the smaller pins that can be seen on the pics, you will see that the leftover is much more concentrated around the pins, being transparent and a lot less sticky, far easier to clean.

 

[Kai Robinson]

I do have some of the 30-pin SIMM sockets if you need some - £5 for each and postage would cover it

 

[iPhil64]

I do have some of the 30-pin SIMM sockets if you need some - £5 for each and postage would cover it

You again !

Well, you know I have two boards, so 4 would be fantastic. It seems you even have my details for postage !

Honestly, I could co and purchase more for to meet $500, but I'm not sure I'd ever be able to resell them.

BTW, @Kai, I could not find a BOM for the blue SIMM you included, do you have that ?
I was even looking for a Gerber, in case I would want to make some in red, but could not find any reference, the URL that is on the silkscreen leads nowhere.

 

[Kai Robinson]

You again !

Well, you know I have two boards, so 4 would be fantastic. It seems you even have my details for postage !

Honestly, I could co and purchase more for to meet $500, but I'm not sure I'd ever be able to resell them.

BTW, @Kai, I could not find a BOM for the blue SIMM you included, do you have that ?
I was even looking for a Gerber, in case I would want to make some in red, but could not find any reference, the URL that is on the silkscreen leads nowhere.

GitHub - hegars/1M-30pinsimm: 1MB 8/9 bit 30 Pin SIMM Fast Page Mode DRAM Module

1MB 8/9 bit 30 Pin SIMM Fast Page Mode DRAM Module - hegars/1M-30pinsimm

github.com

That's the place for the SIMM Gerbers. OK - two boards, 4 sockets, £20 + postage seem fair?

 

[iPhil64]

GitHub - hegars/1M-30pinsimm: 1MB 8/9 bit 30 Pin SIMM Fast Page Mode DRAM Module

1MB 8/9 bit 30 Pin SIMM Fast Page Mode DRAM Module - hegars/1M-30pinsimm

github.com

That's the place for the SIMM Gerbers. OK - two boards, 4 sockets, £20 + postage seem fair?

Yes, perfect ! Deal.

And thanks for the hears GitHub, seems I was not efficient with searching !

 

[JDW]

GitHub - hegars/1M-30pinsimm: 1MB 8/9 bit 30 Pin SIMM Fast Page Mode DRAM Module

1MB 8/9 bit 30 Pin SIMM Fast Page Mode DRAM Module - hegars/1M-30pinsimm

github.com

That's the place for the SIMM Gerbers. OK - two boards, 4 sockets, £20 + postage seem fair?

@Kai Robinson what is your experience with Phoenix Engineering? It seems clear I need to update my BOM with another source, but I’m not sure what link I should use. You are probably going to run out of those sockets pretty quickly.

 

[JDW]

62/36 does flow even better, but there is a huge caveat, it is highly "fluxed" (5 flux cores), which is certainly the reason why it flows so well, but the residuse that are left on the PCBs are horrendous. Honestly, it even literally sparkles around, and could I found resin residues on my finger nails !

That's probably the only reason it flows better than the 60/40, but the flux residue doesn't look too bad in your photos. Could be that it spits so much because it has less Rosin in it, in which case it will be easier for the IPA to clean off later, when you finally clean the board. My MG Chemicals flux has a lot of rosin in it, which makes it harder to clean off than the Amtech flux (with flawed plunger design), but the MG doesn't spit at all. The Amtech doesn't spit either, but it "sizzles" quite often. The MG doesn't sizzle. Again, I think it is tied to the amount of Rosin in the flux.

 

[iPhil64]

Would anyone need red SIMM PCBs ? I shall order some from JLCPCB shortly, so we could regroup the order. BTW, finding the 4 Mb x 4 DRAM chips is the most complex part of the job, even when looking to salvage memory from eBay purchases. Some people are really speculating on old electronics, that is crazy.

 

[Kai Robinson]

@Kai Robinson what is your experience with Phoenix Engineering? It seems clear I need to update my BOM with another source, but I’m not sure what link I should use. You are probably going to run out of those sockets pretty quickly.

Well i was using Tom Barber as an intermediary for purchasing the connectors in bulk, and @max1zzz has used PE-Connectors stuff before as well - they're made by them, as far as i can tell - good quality - but perhaps someone like @Branchus and @MacEffects might consider reselling stuff from them purchased in bulk?