Please note that I have the IWM chip in my SE Reloaded motherboard. I don't have the new ROMs (the actually chips) or a SWIM to test if the SWIM is indeed what restricts you from booting into very old System Software. But since WarpSE apparently has the new ROMs onboard, I would only need a SWIM chip to do testing. Hmmm...
@JDW The WarpSE has the SE FDHD ROM with checksum B306E171 though and does not read from the motherboard ROMs at all. You could even leave the motherboard ROM sockets totally empty. So maybe it's just the SWIM that's incompatible with the early software versions? I think we confirmed a while ago that this ROM works even if you don't have the corresponding SWIM chip and only have an IWM but we will need to check that again later. As for 400k drives, I figured we'd just list them as not officially supported.
My guess would be that the Floppy Emu doesn't need the PWM speed signal because it doesn't have a physical spinning motor. This thread seems to be pointing towards the removal of the PWM related stuff in the SWIM itself, rather than the upgraded ROMs.I have an SE FDHD and I have booted it into System 1.0 running via Floppy Emu before. I can test it today on a real floppy to verify, but I'm pretty sure the SWIM and the newer ROM work fine with old System Software.
Oh wow, unexpected. I didn't think that System 1 would cope with the non-PWM control system. Guess the routines are in ROM.Yes I can confirm that my SE FDHD works with early system software. I found an image of System 0.97 with Finder 1.0, copied it to an 800k floppy formatted Single Sided, and it booted right up from the internal drive. I don't think there are any compatibility issues with the SWIM SE.
I don't have an external 400k drive to test, so I'm not sure if there's an incompatibility issue there, but I believe that the SE FDHD still routes the PWM signal to the external drive connector.
It's pretty cool, they made the ROM forward compatible. I don't know how the ROM works in depth, but i assume the System Software is calling mouse routines and whatnot in the ROM that then call the ADB Manager. Key Caps shows the original keyboard, but everything lights up, and stuff like the keypad inserts numbers (though won't be displayed and lit up on the original keyboard image.)Oh wow, unexpected. I didn't think that System 1 would cope with the non-PWM control system. Guess the routines are in ROM.
Another case of only primary evidence has value. Never believe accepted knowledge
Edit - Quite a surprise though - isn't the memory map different in the SE? Doesn't ADB trip it up? All sorts of questions!
How much RAM does it see?
It's interesting when @JDW used his external 400k drive on his IWM mac that it didn't work. Since the WarpSE uses the FDHD ROM it's very likely they removed any code in the ROM for that as well. ...but then I wonder if the SWIM could support PWM if the ROM did too, that's beyond my knowledge.Incompatibility with the single-sided disk drive
Even though some of the Macintosh models with the SWIM interface have external disk-drive connections, none of them support the 400B single-sided disk drive, which requires computer control of motor speed through a signal named PWM. On the SWIM-equipped machines, that signal is permanently high; a single-sided drive will not work.
Personally, I would tell Apple about that because (scroll down to "Mac OS Supported")...Yes I can confirm that my SE FDHD works with early system software.
Old one simply shouldn't be used for testing anymore. Maybe you can refer to it by date, but I am not inclined to come up with a versioning system at this time. We should never go back to the old firmware anyway since there have been a lot of changes under the hood. Just throw the old one away and it's preserved on TinkerDifferent and in GitHub in case we need to refer back to itPersonally, I would tell Apple about that because (scroll down to "Mac OS Supported")...
Macintosh SE FDHD: Technical Specifications - Apple Support
support.apple.com
(Yes, I have actually reported inaccuracies on the Apple website to Apple via Feedback before, despite the fact I was attacked on FaceBook for having done so. Frady cats thinking Apple would "take it down" only because I offered a correction suggestion. Madness! So I now simply tell Apple in silence to avoid the flames.)
I know there are historical documents out there which said the same from all the way back when the machine first came out, but I can't find those documents at the moment.
Wish I had a SWIM and new ROMs to do that kind of testing. But even though I have more than one SE motherboard, I only have IWM chips and the old ROMs. I think that's probably fine for testing Zane's WarpSE because several other people are testing too (I think — we've not heard but from a select few in this thread).
Speaking of testing...
@Zane Kaminski
I would be happy to test your new firmware tonight after work, but it seems the filename is exactly as the previous "ROBUST"...
View attachment 18002
Of course, I can rename it something at random, but then how to I refer to it in a way you and everybody else in this thread can understand? If indeed that new download is a different "ROBUST" than the previous "ROBUST," can we agree to name it "WarpSE.GW4410A.1.1robust.exe"? If you dislike that name, tell me your preference so I can be sure to refer to it using your moniker.
Thanks!
Date references are easy to forget and confuse, so I shall rename it: WarpSE.GW4410A.1.0robust_OLD.exeOld one simply shouldn't be used for testing anymore. Maybe you can refer to it by date, but I am not inclined to come up with a versioning system at this time. We should never go back to the old firmware anyway since there have been a lot of changes under the hood. Just throw the old one away and it's preserved on TinkerDifferent and in GitHub in case we need to refer back to it
Okay, attached is a new firmware which leaves the clock enabled all the time and I suspect it should fix the crash on startup...
I will do that on my lunch break today. After that, I will remove WarpSE from the stock SE motherboard and test it on my SE Reloaded motherboard. Shouldn't be a difference, but I've not tested the 0.5 firmware WarpSE on that motherboard yet.@JDW Thanks!! I really appreciate your hard work testing.
Can you make another recording of Tetris so we can compare?
Hmm, let me know if reflashing the firmware helps. If not, maybe you can try reverting to an older version such as the “old robust” and see if that fixes anything.On my lunch break now and experiencing something new.
The SE won't bong or boot anymore with the WarpSE installed, despite the fact it worked fine when I ended my testing last night and put everything away. I've tried it on both motherboards. Same on both. Pressing and holding INTERRUPT does nothing. Can't revert to stock SE when WarpSE is installed using that method.
If I remove WarpSE, both motherboards bong and boot fine. On my SE Reloaded board, it shows the standard clean looking vertical bar code bars. On my stock Apple SE motherboard, I see the normal garbage which looks like this...
View attachment 18032
So I am now reflashing the same 0.5 firmware again. But this is VERY ODD to say the least.
The only thing different I did last night was to use my stock Apple SE motherboard with the WarpSE when flashing the WarpSE. All prior flashing had been done with the WarpSE on my SE Reloaded motherboard.