BlueSCSI v2 Pico - Low cost, open hardware, fast SCSI device!

[Paolo B]

Hi Paolo,

I tested all my BlueSCSI V2 with real Mac SE/30. So far, we have not had any problems with our products other than scratches during PCB manufacturing. The scratched BlueSCSI will not be shipped and will be in my possession forever...

I'm also unfamiliar with what you're trying to do, so I need help from others.
@eric @Androda @OneGeekArmy , any ideas?
If you need an immediate reply, I think it would be a good idea to access Open Retro SCSI/ BlueSCSI/ BlueSCSI-support on discord and ask.

I'll share the 2.048GB file generated already, which has been proven to work on many of my Macs.
Good luck!

PS: Try some SD cards. Some products are incompatible with it.

Hello Kay,

Thanks a lot for your comments and for sharing the 2Gb image, I really appreciate your support. I will try it as soon as possible.

I am sure the hardware is ok: it’s beautifully made, you tested it, it works on a Portable, I’m not even taking the trouble of further testing it on my SE/30.

I also tried three different SD cards, always the same result.

What seems to me not OK is the configuration of the virtual devices.

For example: baseline device image naming fails to be recognized (even on the Mac). The extended naming seems to be required, including the LUN id and the sector size.

Additionally, there’s little to no documentation about the customization of the device geometry.

From the log I could infer that if a *.ini file is NOT present on the SD card, then some default settings are used.

So, I copied the “bluescsi.ini“ file from the repository and started peeking inside, it’s a mix of SCSI2SD xml configuration file, plus some other BlueSCSI specific stuff.

Is there any documentation about this?

Anyhow, I also posted a comment on the GitHub page, apparently someone managed to have it working with an Apollo, so I’m sure it can work with the HP 712 series…

 

[eric]

Should any .ini file be present in the root directory?

Only if you need it - you can goto https://ini.bluescsi.com/ if you'd like to browse through the options and create one. Or poke through the example ini in the github repo.

Many systems dont care about drive geometry, but some do. You could try what a Discord user used for his 2gb image on discord (this was all he needed to get hi NeXT installer to continue):

[SCSI0] SectorsPerTrack=139 HeadsPerCylinder=4

For example: baseline device image naming fails to be recognized (even on the Mac). The extended naming seems to be required, including the LUN id and the sector size.

This shouldn't matter, could you provide the logs of both? If parts are missing like LUN or sector size, they are defaulted to 0 and 512.

From the log I could infer that if a *.ini file is NOT present on the SD card, then some default settings are used.

If you'd like to see all the settings turn on Debug in the ini and it will dump out all the defaults.

As kay suggests if you jump on our Discord there are a lot of people with similar systems who might be able to give more direct guidance. Once we find the right settings for you we'll add them to the wiki for the next person who comes along.

 

[Paolo B]

Thanks @eric for the kind reply. As soon as I have time I will try to play with the settings.
I confirm that to my experience for the SCSI2SD board in combination with NeXT black hardware, 139 and 4 are the “magic” numbers.
Will try to create an account on Discord, too.

 

[joethezombie]

Is there any reason a BlueSCSI v2 desktop edition wouldn't work with a DB25 converter on the external port of my SE/30? I tried doing just that, but I get a sadmac error. The same adapter works with SCSI2SD.

EDIT: Adding the BlueSCSI works fine internally.

 

[eric]

Is there any reason a BlueSCSI v2 desktop edition wouldn't work with a DB25 converter on the external port of my SE/30? I tried doing just that, but I get a sadmac error. The same adapter works with SCSI2SD.

EDIT: Adding the BlueSCSI works fine internally.

On the SE/30 the internal and external bus are the same (just one bus). I use a DB25 to 50 pin adapter all the time. One thing I did run across was my Parity pin on the DB25 connector was not soldered. I'd inspect your DB25 connector just as a first step.

 

[joethezombie]

Thanks for the response! I was able to get the combination to work just fine on a different SE/30, so there is something amiss on the first SE/30 I tried. Strange that it works with SCSI2SD. Maybe the termination power is subpar. I'll experiment and post any findings. Gotta say, I am loving this BlueV2!

 

[Paolo B]

Brief update. I went back to what I knew would work on the HP712, i.e. SCSI2SD.
I confirm you need to set the combo 139/4, else the NeXTStep installer will hang.
Eventually, I could confirm a working installation of HP UX 10.20 and NeXT Step 3.3 with SCSI2SD.

I then moved back to BlueSCSI Board, set up the “same configuration” as SCSI2SD and tried to run NeXTStep installer.
2Gb cut images are seen, but the drive formatting immediately crashes.
In the log there’s a warning about inconsistent numbers of blocks allocated in the image, I need to check into that.

 

[Paolo B]

So, eventually I could get BlueSCSI v2 *somehow* working in combination with the HP712 machine.

I encountered many issues, sometimes confounded. For confirmation I repeated over and over the same process (fundamentally installation from scratch of both NEXTSTEP and HP/HX, from physical external CD ROM), however obtaining alternate results.

I don’t have the time for a systematic investigation, so I’m only reporting what I have experienced so far.

Hardware

Installed as replacement of the inner drive.

I couldn’t notice any different behavior when the device is actively powered via the dedicated connector or via the scsi cable.
Still, I prefer to keep it actively powered.

SD Card: I had a bunch of (micro) SD cards different in size, all of them tested OK with SCSI2SD.
I found that one of them is surely not compatible with BlueSCSI, throwing many errors during initialization phase.

SD Extension cable: still unclear to me if the one that I have is causing troubles or not, but it seems to randomly fail the disk initialization process.
Once the OS is installed, the machine is apparently still usable in combination with the extension cable, though (less intensive R/W alternate?).

Software

Device image: max 2 Gb for NEXTSTEP, can be bigger for HP/UX.

Device image SCSI ID: this is about HP, not about BlueSCSI. Default boot scsi ID is the highest, so shall be set to 6.
CD ROM for installation shall be set to 2.

Default BlueSCSI set up will not work, you must drop in the root directory a properly configured 'bluescsi.ini' file.

Must at least override:

SectorsPerTrack=139
HeadsPerCylinder=4

as default values 63 / 255 will fail.

Nice to have: when creating empty device image from terminal, it is better to end up with a number of sectors
exact multiple of sectorsPerTrack x headsPerCylinder.
I could read a warning in the log file about some SCSI command that could fail in case of inconsistency.

e.g.

dd if=/dev/zero of=HD60_512.hda bs=139x4b count=7544

 

[Paolo B]

Additional note.

SD Extender is not compatible with BlueSCSI, similarly to SCSI2SD, the card is just not seen at start up.

Removing the pull up resistor as reported in a previous entry in this thread is making the card visible to the bios, but then the OS installer invariably crashes during the initialization of the ”disk”.

Once the installation of the OS (NEXTSTEP / HPUX) is complete, apparently everything works fine, but sooner or later it will crash.

It would be interesting to understand the reason of this incompatibility and to figure out a fix for future releases of the hardware, as swapping SD cards without opening the unit remains an attractive option for many users.

 

[retr01]

SD Extender is not compatible with BlueSCSI, similarly to SCSI2SD, the card is just not seen at start up.

So, any SD ribbon extenders will not work with BlueSCSI?

 

[Paolo B]

I have the one in the picture and it doesn’t work, unless you take out the pull up resistor. Even in that configuration, though, the installer of the OS crashes reporting read/write issues durino the initialization. Once everything is installed by plugging the card directly in the device, apparently you can use the extension, but after some time I was using it (adding on sw), the machine just hung, I had to force shut down (read: pull the plug) and eventually reinstall everything.

What is interesting, is that I have tested the cable (in original configuration) in combination with my camera and everything worked just fine.
So, I suspect it must be something on the BlueSCSI end.

I must also add that I am using 2 micro2fullsize SD adapters at both ends (originally, I bought it for SCSI2SD), which can have a role.
I opened one adapter and they seem to me to just electrically connecting the pads, though.

That’s all I can say for the moment.

 

[retr01]

So, I have been using BlueSCSI v2 DB25 as an external on my P476 with no issues. On my SE/30, however, when I boot it up, it crashes with a Sad Mac. So I unplugged the DB25 BlueSCSI v2, and the SE/30 booted up fine from its internal BlueSCSI F4. Weird. I have the identical internal Blue SCSI F4 in my P476 and could use BlueSCSI v2 DB25 at the same time.

I checked the SCSI IDs on the SE/30's start-up image and the images on the other SD in BlueSCSI v2, and there are no conflicting SCSI IDs.

I will grab some connectors and see if my SE/30 can boot with the P475's BlueSCSI F4 as an external SCSI, but I think it's in another box somewhere. Hmmm.

Any ideas? @Androda, @eric, or anyone?

 

[eric]

As always start with the troubleshooting guide https://github.com/BlueSCSI/BlueSCSI-v2/wiki/Troubleshooting#what-to-try-first

After that if you are still having an issue see the next section on that page about how to turn on debug logs and share that.

 

[retr01]

Okay, there isn't anything funky in the log and no debugging information after enabling debug in the bluescsi.ini file. Everything seems to be working since it works fine on my P476 as a second BlueSCSI via external SCSI.

My SE/30 still throws an FC Sad Mac. I initially thought, "I have to reformat the SD card." Then again, why does it work fine on the P476? Sigh.

I am not using BlueSCSI v2 as a primary startup volume since the BlueSCSI F4 in P476 and SE/30 are the primary internal startup volumes. My BlueSCSI v2 DB25 is my "portable external HDD" for multiple Macs.

 

[eric]

Could you provide the debug logs? Also did you try all the steps in the link i sent (don't skip any) - need to narrow things and get more details to provide any guidance. Could you also share the sad mac code?

 

[retr01]

Could you provide the debug logs?

What output would the debug logs be filed under? The same log file?

Also did you try all the steps in the link i sent (don't skip any) - need to narrow things and get more details to provide any guidance. Could you also share the sad mac code?

The Sad Mac code was F and C on the first and second lines:

That means compatibility exception. I had that same error a few times before with the IIci and SE/30 with the BlueSCSI F4, and formatting the SD resolved, and both Macs could boot up.

In my next step, according to the "What to try First" section of the BlueSCSI v2 Troubleshooting page, I will format the SD with software from the SD Association. Then go from there with just one image.

 

[retr01]

Okay, I think I can theorize what happened. First, I will list the steps that led me to surmise. Second, I will explain what my theory is.

1. I formatted the SD card using this program on my MBA M1. I chose the Overwrite Format option.
   
2. Put one .hda image on the SD.
3. Put the SD card in the Blue SCSI v2 DB25 and plugged it into the rear DB25 SCSI port on my SE/30.
4. It boots up fine into System 7.1 on the desktop, which shows the startup image on the internal BlueSCSI F4 and the first image on the external.
5. Put the second .hda image on the SD.
6. The startup volume and two external volumes on my SE/30. The ROM Disk is a feature on the BlueSCSI v2.
   
7. Put the third .hda image on the SD, the Apple Legacy CD from 1999.
8. Bam! The dreaded Sad Mac is throwing the compatibility exception.
   
9. I removed that offending .hda image.
10. My SE/30 and I are now happy. I can play TETRIS on my SE/30! Yay!

My theory is that my SE/30, using the original Apple SE/30 512KB ROM SIMM, does not like System 7.6.1 on the Apple Legacy .hda image. So, I will have to customize that with System 7.1, which I will create a separate thread to discuss further.

 

[eric]

Put the third .hda image on the SD, the Apple Legacy CD from 1999.

This is why I really push everyone to follow the troubleshooting steps so closely to remove variables and slowly add them back in till you find out whats wrong. I had a susupicion that it was a drive image incompatibility. Glad you got it working!

 

[Paolo B]

I did some extra trials, I confirm the v2 works fine with HP712, and I also confirm it doesn’t work with the extender cable.
Apparently, it does, but you will soon start getting “media error” and that will be it.

 

[retr01]

I confirm it doesn’t work with the extender cable. Apparently, it does, but you will soon start getting “media error” and that will be it.

Now, I wonder why. Do SD extenders work with typical electronics applications like the Pi, Pico, cameras, GoPro, etc?

I believe there is an explanation for why SD extenders do not work with BlueSCSI after the media error creeps up. I have questions:

• How long was it starting using the SD extender until media errors began occurring?
• What constitutes "media error?"
• Did the BlueSCSI debugging log show anything during those media errors?
• What happens with the data transfer and the data during the media errors?