WarpSE: 25 MHz 68HC000-based accelerator for Mac SE

[ppuskari]

Was able to flash them all and see how things worked with System 7.1.1pro running on my Zip 100scsi carts like always...

SlowSCC - Doesn't work for me. It will time out the domain search and then display the control panel and no items in the appletalk list.

FastSCC - works well - and it may just be my viewing but it seems almost a skoche faster but maybe it's just me or some directory lists on my main drive got cached.

0.7d - works well - No noticeable issues now.

What I have NOT tested is hooking Macs back to back via a serial cable direct. I'm using regular LocalTalk serial to 3pin adaptors to my Cayman Gatorbox buss that it then exposes to the Ethernet side to my raspberry pi and virtual box instances on the PC.

 

[ppuskari]

Because my internal 800K drive in this SE is all rusted up and impossible to use, I have no ribbon cable attached. But I connected an external 800K drive and tried to share, but only my hard disk volumes appear. So it would seem that early Mac System Software did not support the LocalTalk Sharing of floppies.

I tried to trick the Mac into doing it anyway by making an Alias of the floppy, then copying that to on my my drive volumes on the SE. But while I could then see the alias on the SE/30, double-clicking the alias resulted in the SE/30 asking me for the disk. I ejected and reinserted the disk into the external drive attached to the SE/30, but that didn't work. Seems as if the SE/30 wants the disk inserted into one of its floppy drives.

I then made an alias of a file on the floppy, and I copied that alias to my hard disk volume. That alias too is visible on my SE/30 via sharing. But trying to open it results in the SE/30 asking me to insert the floppy disk again. But I assure you, it is inserted into the drive attached to the SE.

This means Apple really doesn't want to support floppy driving sharing, and it's too bad too because I think that would be pretty neat.

I will return home from the office now. I can test your version "e" tomorrow, if available by then.

Correct sharing of floppy drives is NOT supported. Neither was floppy images mounted to the desktop via disk copy. Yeah it would have been a neat option!

 

[JDW]

@ppuskari
Can you run the SCSI Director Pro 4.0 disk test with firmware 0.7d-fastscc flashed to WarpSE?

The reason I ask is because I am getting the error shown below after all the Seek tests finish, just as the Graph tests are beginning. And boosting the Preferred size for the app in the Get Info box doesn't resolve it. This happens only in System 7.1, and it never happened for me in the past.

I had old firmware on my BlueSCSI v1. It was December 2022. Last night, I updated to the latest BSv1 firmware, and all seems well. But I didn't run the above test BEFORE I flashed firmware, so I don't know if it is resulting from the WarpSE firmware or new BSv1 firmware.

Even more interesting is the fact I don't get that error if I boot into System 6.0.8! I can run the test just fine, and for some reason, the scores are noticeably higher than my scores tested in the past...

For example, in the past, with older WarpSE firmware and my old BSv1 firmware, I was getting very low performance numbers as shown below:

I didn't have time on my lunch break to reflash WarpSE, so I am curious what numbers you get @ppuskari , and please test in System 7.1 and System 6. I'm curious if you get the out of memory error like I am seeing in System 7.1. Again, that error is new. I've never seen it before.

 

[ppuskari]

I have fast-scc loaded and booting from a Scsi Director 3.1 driver on the Zip 100 cartridge running 7.1.1 Pro pretty much base install.

Using Scsi Director Pro 4.0 application for tests it passed.

The Epson Iomega zip 100 Scsi with Fuji Zip 100meg cart gave the following:

Sequential 6.27
Butterfly 34.56
Pattern 13.03
Outer to Inner 75.25

Average seek 32.28

max Read 800KB/sec
max Write 804KB/sec
Avg access 4.40 ms

Not too shabby really for a ZIP 100!

It's late here now so I'll try the 6.0.8 variant of this test tomorrow.

 

[JDW]

@JDW I would keep the 74LS245s since that's the same as the original. The 74F-series parts however should not be replaced with 74ACT and instead 74FCT or 74AHCT would be better.

@Zane Kaminski
So as to update my SE Reloaded BOM, I was searching today for your recommended 74FCT & 74AHCT parts. I cannot find 74AHCT in a DIP package, so that poses a problem for use on an SE motherboard. I was, however, able to find part number IDT74FCT257TP on DigiKey (not on Mouser). Please confirm if this is your top pick IC and if so, I'll update my BOM (and eventually order some for myself).

UPDATE #1: Bad news. Those chips on DigiKey require a stupid 325pc minimum order! So those chips are not possible to use, sadly.

UPDATE #2: Rochester Electronics sells them in single piece quantities, but they have a ridiculous $250 minimum order!

 

[JDW]

I retested with the SCSI Director Pro 4.0 disk test using firmware 0.7d-fastscc flashed to WarpSE and using the newest v1.1-20231116 firmware flashed to my BlueSCSI v1. However, this time I disabled WarpSE via INTERRUPT switch and then booted into System 7.1 and tested. No problems...

I then powered OFF and ON to retest with WarpSE active, and for some reason, it passed the test without error this time:

Why I got the "memory error" as reported in my previous post is a mystery. The other interesting thing is that the "dip" in the graph for Writes, shown in my previous post, is now gone. Strange these two problems magically vanished, but oh well. Such is life, I guess.

One thing this testing shows is that SCSI speed has improved in WarpSE firmware 0.7d-fastscc, as compared to earlier firmware versions where I was getting about the same performance from my BlueSCSIv1 as I got with using the stock 8MHz SE. In other words, that speed bump has nothing to do with the firmware on my BlueSCSI, and I know that because I flashed the old Dec. 2022 BSv1 firmware and tested and got the same graphs you see above.

 

[Zane Kaminski]

@ppuskari Thanks for your help testing!! Glad we can now put put "fastscsi" back into the mainline release.

@JDW thanks for investigating this! As I said to Petar, we have put back the "fastscsi" into the 0.7d-series releases, so SCSI will be significantly faster. Are you using the SCSI Director 4.0 drivers? I guess there may be two parts, an init/extension/control panel with drivers and also the drivers that go on the SCSI drive which the Mac loads and then executes. So if the tests work better using the SCSI Director 3.x or other drivers, I think it's probably because of some timing-dependent code in SCSI Director 4.0, maybe there are some blind reads/writes or something. I will investigate SCSI Director 4.0 soon.

As for the chips, thinking further about this, since the RAM row/column address bus is only level-sensitive, it shouldn't really matter if ACT chips are used. The edge rate will be much faster than 74F so the signal may ring in the RAM sockets, but the RAM address bus is not edge-sensitive. Therefore it shouldn't matter if there's an oscillation between 1 and 0 after the transition since it will resolve itself before the RAS/CAS signals become active. Plus this couldn't cause an issue with the WarpSE since it only writes to motherboard RAM and never reads from it. So with the WarpSE, the only possibility from the ACT-series chips being too fast would be oscillations on the address bus that shouldn't matter.

One thing left to try is streaming audio over LocalTalk. This test will really stress the WarpSE especially the slowdown stuff. @ppuskari you mentioned this earlier. What program did you have in mind for this?

In the meantime, I'm finishing up the final board revision. It seems like we have some new competition from the new 68030-based accelerator from MacEffects. It's a clone of the old MicroMac Performer and for the most part not as fast as the WarpSE but we should try to fire back anyway! So I am consolidating the clock input pins into an "overclocking header" that will replace the old debug header. In conjunction with this, we will be making a little "overclocking kit" board that goes on the header with 30, 32, and 36 MHz oscillators selectable via DIP switch. You'll also be able to select different wait state options. With our 800nm 68HC000s, 30 MHz operation with one extra RAM wait state is almost certainly possible, and 36 MHz operation (also with a RAM and ROM wait state) should achievable on most if not all units. Will post pictures soon once I finalize the overclocking header pinout!

In the meantime, for testers, 0.d-fastscc is the version to keep testing! SCSI Director 4.x issues seem mostly benign since there were also issues on Petar's other accelerator. So hopefully there are no more "showstopper" bugs!

 

[JDW]

@JDW Are you using the SCSI Director 4.0 drivers?

No. On my BlueSCSI v1, I am using the Eric Helgeson recommended Apple HD SC Setup 7.3.5 driver.

It seems like we have some new competition from the new 68030-based accelerator from MacEffects. It's a clone of the old MicroMac Performer and for the most part not as fast as the WarpSE...

I spotted that being talked about on FaceBook today. My opinion is that it doesn't really compete because an 030 is a very different beast than a 68000. It probably requires some kind of extension or CP to enable all the caches, right? But even if it doesn't, I don't believe an 030 processor can boot into the earliest versions of MacOS like System 0.95 and Finder 1.0. I know WarpSE can do that because I've tested and proven it! And I think that makes the Mac SE really special. Because with WarpSE, you get your same SE software compatibility experience ONLY FASTER! With the 020 and 030 chips, there are more restrictions in place about what software you can run. That's why I think 020 and 030 accelerators for the SE are a different category of accelerator.

Of course, the flip side of the coin is that some software requires an 020 or higher to run. But typically those apps require more than 4MB of RAM too, so you can't run them anyway. And I don't think the MacEffects accelerator breaks the 4MB RAM ceiling.

I don't wish to undermine MacEffects at all by saying all this. I'm a big fan of Mark and his products. But when you are talking about an 030 or faster in a compact Mac, it raises the question as to whether you are best served by a Mac SE, or if you should go with an SE/30 instead.

I therefore think there's a lot of merit to WarpSE, and 030 accelerators really don't steal its thunder in my eyes at all. Which means, all this work being done on WarpSE is certainly not in vain. It just needs to be marketed with "backward software compatibility" at the forefront. It does have that advantage over 030 accelerators.

Speaking of "compatibility"...

I made a NEW DISCOVERY!​

Since my 800K drive is all rusted up (so badly that I am not inclined to even try to fix it), I decided to install the 1.44MB Superdrive from one of my SE/30 machines into my SE. Keep in mind I have the old ROMs & old IWM chip on my SE Reloaded motherboard. Zane, I believe you said that WarpSE has the new SE ROMs built-in. But the fact remains I do NOT have a SWIM chip. And so, with WarpSE enabled, it gives me the new ROMs with the old IWM.

I started my tests by booting from my BlueSCSI into System 7.1, with WarpSE enabled:

1. Inserted a Mac formatted 1.44MB floppy. It reads the disk and recognizes it as 1.44MB! I wasn't expecting that!
2. I formatted the disk as a 1.44MB floppy. It formatted and verified fine!
3. I used a 1.44MB disk image on my BlueSCSI to write its content to my real 1.44MB disk. The copy finished without issue! Software launched from my 1.44MB floppy just fine!
4. I erased the disk and then copied my System & Finder files from my BlueSCSI's System 6.0.8 system folder to the 1.44MB floppy, but when I rebooted the SE refused to boot from the floppy and ejected it. So even though Reading/Writing/Formatting works on 1.44MB floppies, booting isn't supported.

I then powered OFF & ON while pressing INTERRUPT to boot from my BlueSCSI into System 7.1 using the stock 8MHz processor (WarpSE disabled):

1. When I inserted the 1.44MB floppy, it asks if I want to initialize it as 400K or 800K, which means 1.44MB disks are not understood. That is expected behavior because I have old ROMs and the IWM chip on my motherboard. If you proceed to Initialize without tape, it will fail, but with tape covering the hole, it will succeed.
2. I used System Picker to set the boot OS to be System 6.0.8, and then I restarted and inserted a 1.44MB floppy formatted as a 400K MFS boot disk with System 3.2 & Finder 5.3. It booted of that floppy disk just fine, although the sound of the drive is a low pitched tone, somewhat resembling a grinding sound.
3. I then ejected the disk and put a piece of tape over the hole which only 1.44MB disks have, then rebooted from that same disk. This time, the sound of the drive was normal. No more grinding sound.
4. I took a fresh 1.44MB disk and put tape over the hole and inserted it into the drive, and I formatted it in System 6 as a 400K MFS floppy (yes, I know you shouldn't do that, but I'm testing here!). I then copied my System 3.2 / Finder 5.3 disk content to that newly formatted 400K disk. That worked just fine.
5. When I booted from the newly created disk without tape covering the hole, it made a grinding sound but it booted. I then put tape on and rebooted from it, and the drive head sound returned to normal.

I then powered OFF & ON and left WarpSE enabled and booted into System 6 from my BlueSCSI:

1. Inserting my 1.44MB 400K-formatted disk without the tape covering causes the OS to ask me to initialize the disk.
2. Inserting my 1.44MB 400K-formatted disk with the tape covering allows the disk to be read and mounted just fine.

CONCLUSION
The newer ROMs onboard the WarpSE enable use of 1.44MB floppies when you have a 1.44MB floppy drive installed, and you can do anything you like with those disks, with WarpSE enabled, except for booting. So it would seem that to boot from a 1.44MB disk requires the SWIM chip. And while you shouldn't format 1.44MB disks as 400K or 800K, if you do decide to do that, you just need to remember to put tape over the hole.

I really wish I had a SWIM chip to test things further. For example, I want to see if I can boot from a 1.44MB floppy into System 0.95 and Finder 1.0.

 

[JTRetro]

No. On my BlueSCSI v1, I am using the Eric Helgeson recommended Apple HD SC Setup 7.3.5 driver.


I spotted that being talked about on FaceBook today. My opinion is that it doesn't really compete because an 030 is a very different beast than a 68000. It probably requires some kind of extension or CP to enable all the caches, right? But even if it doesn't, I don't believe an 030 processor can boot into the earliest versions of MacOS like System 0.95 and Finder 1.0. I know WarpSE can do that because I've tested and proven it! And I think that makes the Mac SE really special. Because with WarpSE, you get your same SE software compatibility experience ONLY FASTER! With the 020 and 030 chips, there are more restrictions in place about what software you can run. That's why I think 020 and 030 accelerators for the SE are a different category of accelerator.

Of course, the flip side of the coin is that some software requires an 020 or higher to run. But typically those apps require more than 4MB of RAM too, so you can't run them anyway. And I don't think the MacEffects accelerator breaks the 4MB RAM ceiling.

I don't wish to undermine MacEffects at all by saying all this. I'm a big fan of Mark and his products. But when you are talking about an 030 or faster in a compact Mac, it raises the question as to whether you are best served by a Mac SE, or if you should go with an SE/30 instead.

I therefore think there's a lot of merit to WarpSE, and 030 accelerators really don't steal its thunder in my eyes at all. Which means, all this work being done on WarpSE is certainly not in vain. It just needs to be marketed with "backward software compatibility" at the forefront. It does have that advantage over 030 accelerators.

Speaking of "compatibility"...

I made a NEW DISCOVERY!​

Since my 800K drive is all rusted up (so badly that I am not inclined to even try to fix it), I decided to install the 1.44MB Superdrive from one of my SE/30 machines into my SE. Keep in mind I have the old ROMs & old IWM chip on my SE Reloaded motherboard. Zane, I believe you said that WarpSE has the new SE ROMs built-in. But the fact remains I do NOT have a SWIM chip. And so, with WarpSE enabled, it gives me the new ROMs with the old IWM.

I started my tests by booting from my BlueSCSI into System 7.1, with WarpSE enabled:

1. Inserted a Mac formatted 1.44MB floppy. It reads the disk and recognizes it as 1.44MB! I wasn't expecting that!
2. I formatted the disk as a 1.44MB floppy. It formatted and verified fine!
3. I used a 1.44MB disk image on my BlueSCSI to write its content to my real 1.44MB disk. The copy finished without issue! Software launched from my 1.44MB floppy just fine!
4. I erased the disk and then copied my System & Finder files from my BlueSCSI's System 6.0.8 system folder to the 1.44MB floppy, but when I rebooted the SE refused to boot from the floppy and ejected it. So even though Reading/Writing/Formatting works on 1.44MB floppies, booting isn't supported.

I then powered OFF & ON while pressing INTERRUPT to boot from my BlueSCSI into System 7.1 using the stock 8MHz processor (WarpSE disabled):

1. When I inserted the 1.44MB floppy, it asks if I want to initialize it as 400K or 800K, which means 1.44MB disks are not understood. That is expected behavior because I have old ROMs and the IWM chip on my motherboard. If you proceed to Initialize without tape, it will fail, but with tape covering the hole, it will succeed.
2. I used System Picker to set the boot OS to be System 6.0.8, and then I restarted and inserted a 1.44MB floppy formatted as a 400K MFS boot disk with System 3.2 & Finder 5.3. It booted of that floppy disk just fine, although the sound of the drive is a low pitched tone, somewhat resembling a grinding sound.
3. I then ejected the disk and put a piece of tape over the hole which only 1.44MB disks have, then rebooted from that same disk. This time, the sound of the drive was normal. No more grinding sound.
4. I took a fresh 1.44MB disk and put tape over the hole and inserted it into the drive, and I formatted it in System 6 as a 400K MFS floppy (yes, I know you shouldn't do that, but I'm testing here!). I then copied my System 3.2 / Finder 5.3 disk content to that newly formatted 400K disk. That worked just fine.
5. When I booted from the newly created disk without tape covering the hole, it made a grinding sound but it booted. I then put tape on and rebooted from it, and the drive head sound returned to normal.

I then powered OFF & ON and left WarpSE enabled and booted into System 6 from my BlueSCSI:

1. Inserting my 1.44MB 400K-formatted disk without the tape covering causes the OS to ask me to initialize the disk.
2. Inserting my 1.44MB 400K-formatted disk with the tape covering allows the disk to be read and mounted just fine.

CONCLUSION
The newer ROMs onboard the WarpSE enable use of 1.44MB floppies when you have a 1.44MB floppy drive installed, and you can do anything you like with those disks, with WarpSE enabled, except for booting. So it would seem that to boot from a 1.44MB disk requires the SWIM chip. And while you shouldn't format 1.44MB disks as 400K or 800K, if you do decide to do that, you just need to remember to put tape over the hole.

I really wish I had a SWIM chip to test things further. For example, I want to see if I can boot from a 1.44MB floppy into System 0.95 and Finder 1.0.

This is pretty amazing! I will re-install my 800k SE board in my test machine later today when I get home from work and duplicate this test.

 

[eric]

No. On my BlueSCSI v1, I am using the Eric Helgeson recommended Apple HD SC Setup 7.3.5 driver.

Just to clarify the recommendation is not for the "best" or "fastest" it's for "the most compatible" - if you're not moving this image between a Plus and a G3 then you should defiantly give another driver a shot. FWB is amazingly fast on PPC, and I'm sure you can eek out a few kb/sec with a different driver on some 68k's too - just take a backup before trying.

 

[JDW]

Just to clarify the recommendation is not for the "best" or "fastest" it's for "the most compatible" - if you're not moving this image between a Plus and a G3 then you should defiantly give another driver a shot. FWB is amazingly fast on PPC, and I'm sure you can eke out a few kb/sec with a different driver on some 68k's too - just take a backup before trying.

In the context of this WarpSE thread, I was merely saying that 7.3.5 is the best BluseSCSIv1 driver for the Mac SE, especially when when booting very old operating systems like System 6 and below.

It’s critically important to bear in mind that I’ve said that WarpSE can be fully enabled in your Mac SE with BluseSCSI and the 7.3.5 driver even when booting a floppy using System file version 0.95 and Finder version 1.0.

I know about this driver compatibility also from past testing with my SE/30, where the OS 8 driver I tested back at that time didn’t work with very old pre-System7 system software. I spent many hours of testing that, and I ultimately found that your original recommended 7.3.5 driver was the best for that particular use case.

So in my overall testing of BlueSCSIv1 on the earliest Macs running very old System Software, the 7.3.5 driver is rock solid.