2025 PowerPC Challenge

[PowerRCP-G3]

Day 11

My iBook G4 ran hot while trying to process some clips from Final Cut Express. It was my goal to get some clips finished and I was successful at that. I also created a ClassiCube account and tested out the online features of that game.

 

[HrutkayMods]

So if you guys are curious early SATA I chips didn't play nicely with forward compatibility most will work with SATA II but not SATA III. Lots of SATA III and some II drives have jumper pins to force the drive into SATA I speeds which fixes the compatibility with newer drives.

 

[Nycturne]

I understand that the drives themselves must be specified because of the differences in transfer rate among other things, but why would they bother doing this with cables if cable compatibility with all three protocols were a given?

You happened to quote my answer to this question, although it might be a little jargon-filled? I think @Certificate of Excellence and @HrutkayMods brought up good details here on the tests of cables, as well as a good alternative explanation for the issue you are running into, and I don't really have anything to add on those points.

What I will say is that this is pretty common across many connection protocols. Higher speeds over the same pinouts are easy if you can increase the signaling frequency and add some way to handshake to the higher frequency (think of how modems handshake to determine how quickly they can communicate). But faster signaling frequencies means that you are more susceptible to interference from electromagnetic radiation. Any suitable wire is an antenna, after all. So these faster speeds place more requirements on shielding the cable from this interference. HDMI/DisplayPort are probably the most obvious examples of this, where old cables may or may not handle newer speeds it wasn't rated for when it was made. It depends on the length of the cable, and how well the cable was built.

Ethernet is probably the cleanest of the bunch. By making clear categories, there's not much wiggle room in terms of say, a Cat 6 cable that somehow meets the requirements of Cat 7. So then you can make very specific claims about the performance of a given cable with Ethernet. But if you look at what makes the categories different, it's all about better and better rejection of interference.

 

[HrutkayMods]

Here’s my comparison video on the Intel transition

by the way, it really doesn’t matter what the cable is. I’m pretty sure all SATA cables are created equally. They’re all copper wire on the inside.

 

[PowerRCP-G3]

Day 12

Not much has happened other than the fact that the iBook G4 was hard at work with processing the clips. But, they are all ready to go. I also played some ClassiCube.

 

[phunguss]

Day 16/17

I wanted to check the solder job on my 12" iFrankenBook, so I booted it up from a battery. All is well. You can see by the computer name, that I have just been cloning drives instead of clean installs.

And the battery charges when plugged in, so all is good.

I pulled out the MDD and tried the 3.5" mSATA to IDE in all 3 busses. I ran Xbench with drive only test.

Front bus with mechanical drive as slave:

Optical drive bus:

And the rear bus:

So that black adapter with red cable boots on all 3 busses. I will try a couple other PPC towers this weekend, maybe the Cube as well.

Other adapters arrived in the mail. M.2 sata to mSATA, and more mSATA to IDE.

Then attached to IDE to USB and to my iMac for formatting.

 

[iBookSpeedster88]

I just found yesterday while at work some official documentation from the SATA-io group on their host website about the SATA-3 (it's quicker than typing the capital letter I three times, sorry) protocol and they confirm that there should be nothing interfering in compatibility between the connectors. The following screenshot was taken from this helpful .pdf they provided here: https://sata-io.org/sites/default/files/documents/SATA-Revision-3.0-FAQ-FINAL.pdf.

Was I just under a misconception the whole time, tragically exacerbated by confirmation bias while working on my PowerMac? Something must have gotten passed on to me along the way in the past. Let's just forget about that

Also, as I noticed I didn't have a picture for it, here's my DVI-to-HDMI adapter connected to the I think it was NVIDIA GeForce 6600 in the PowerMac? I'm holding the DisplayPort-to-DVI adapter in my hand in the bottom left corner of the image, too:

I remembered that "Broken Electronics" on YouTube used the same 3.5-inch-to-2.5-inch adapter that I received in the following video. There's a jump cut from when he connects it to his PowerMac, but since he doesn't make any further mention of the adapter in the video, to my recollection, it's presumed that the adapter was kept:

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Was I just under a misconception the whole time, tragically exacerbated by confirmation bias while working on my PowerMac? Something must have gotten passed on to me along the way in the past. Let's just forget about that

Happens to us all at some point I think. Keep plonking along. You'll figure it out.

 

[phunguss]

Day 18

All over the place today. Stripped down an iBook 14" 1.0GHz to put inside a 12" 1.2GHz frame. I found a couple things that will require mods, aside from the battery connector.

Front side:
-Power switch and speaker jacks are wrong pitch, but I think I can salvage some from other boards and swap them
-Trackpad connector on the 1.0GHz is similar to a Powerbook one vs an iBook one. Same amount of pins, maybe I can hack something.

Back side:
-Mount holes are different
-Mount hole has a standoff soldered in it, I should be able to remove it.

Since this adapter worked great in my MDD, I tried it in other G3/G4 towers. mSATA to IDE 3.5" desktop (not 2.5" laptop).

Booted off both busses in my B&W G3

Booted in my QuickSilver

Booted in an AGP

Then on to an ailing PowerBook G4 867MHz 12" that has seen much better days. I have the replacement keys for this keyboard.

The screen bezel is missing a screw.

Corners are dented

Full tear down.

She was dirty inside

And found more problems. I had originally purchased spare hinges when I bought this machine, because I assumed they were broken.

I replaced the missing back cover mount with a knurled insert and used JB Weld epoxy.

I will let that dry for at least 24 hours and then start the reassembly. SSD all ready to go.

 

[V.Yakob]

Hey, folks!

I'm restoring my PM9500, and I've encountered problems that I don't understand how to solve.

The front panel mounts were completely broken, I restored the right side by printing clips, but what to do with the left side?

All self-tapping mounts are broken, in some you can use a self-tapping screw, but it seems very unreliable.



Who would have experience in restoration, what would you recommend?

 

[phunguss]

Day 19

The PowerBook G4 is reassembled. There were a few missing screws inside, but luckily I keep a bin of spares.

The screen could probably use a new backlight (I have a couple LED strips), but I left it as is. Bottom corners are brighter but you usually only see it on flat full color screens. If you are busy with other backgrounds and work, it is not that noticeable.

The bezel has been repaired.

The spare keys I had ordered, only the Command key fit correctly. The others seemed to have been from other versions of PowerBooks. Try, try again.

Three version of Mac OS X, pending install of 10.2

 

[PowerRCP-G3]

Day 13

I didn't even get to do much aside from get some clips ready for the Gran Turismo 2 Daihatsu challenge run and some writing on Google Docs with InterWeb PPC.

Day 14

I got the footage finished and it's now ready to process. I also worked on my SketchUp project a bit and watch The LEGO Ninjago Movie on my iMac G4.

 

[iBookSpeedster88]

FELLAS, I NEED YOUR HELP​

Alright, so one of the two SATA data cables I ordered has arrived. I know it's quite long and it looks humorous at this length, but I think this was the shortest they had available.

aaaaand.... I get a kernel panic

Here is what the kernel panic log shows in case anyone want sot make any sense of it:

Unplugged everything. Took it apart. Checked to see if the cable is plugged in all the way even though I really shouldn't need to be doing this. Is it plugged in to the drive? Yep. Plugged in to the motherboard? Yep.

Turn it on. The SSD still doesn't exist.

I went and got the black cable with the latches from my earlier post.

The SSD still doesn't exist.

I take out the cable and just plug in the SSD using the upper drive bay's power and data cables to force the PowerMac to boot into Sorbet Leopard which is cloned to the SSD using Carbon Copy Cloner as you saw in Part 3.

And that just leaves the computer on a blank screen with no Apple logo ... indefinitely... with the fans on full blast.

FELLAS, I NEED YOUR HELP​

I'm throwing in the towel and tapping all of you into the ring. Just in case it wasn't clear what I am trying to do, here is a quick summary of my predicament and a run down of my goals:

1. The SATA data cable for the bottom drive bay is out of commission
2. I have used two cables in its place with no success
3. I want to use my Mercury Electra 3G 500GB SSD as a bootable drive with 10.5.9 "Sorbet Leopard" installed
4. The drive is recognized by the system and seen by Disk Utility only when plugged in via an external USB enclosure thus far
5. Plugging the drive into the system using the top bay's cables results in nothing booting even after cloning 10.5.9 "Sorbet Leopard" to it

I chose this SSD because of the testimonies of multiple people across various Mac forums claiming that it's basically a guarantee to work with any PowerPC Mac with a SATA connection, but I'm having the exact opposite experience with all of my troubleshooting.

I noticed that my predicament is practically exactly the same as this individual I discovered on the 68kMLA forums here: https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/powermac-g5-wont-recognize-sata-drive.31488/. I suggest reading the short thread. The individual just ended up using a hard drive instead, which is not what I want after all this time, especially considering there originally WAS a hard drive in the second drive bay that got both it and the data cable demolished once unplugged, suggesting that it was forcefully connected or something I cannot explain. I'd like to be rewarded with a usable SSD after all this hassle. Any working solutions are appreciated.

 

[phunguss]

FELLAS, I NEED YOUR HELP​

Alright, so one of the two SATA data cables I ordered has arrived. I know it's quite long and it looks humorous at this length, but I think this was the shortest they had available.

View attachment 19638

aaaaand.... I get a kernel panic

View attachment 19639

Here is what the kernel panic log shows in case anyone want sot make any sense of it:

View attachment 19640

Unplugged everything. Took it apart. Checked to see if the cable is plugged in all the way even though I really shouldn't need to be doing this. Is it plugged in to the drive? Yep. Plugged in to the motherboard? Yep.

View attachment 19642View attachment 19641

Turn it on. The SSD still doesn't exist.

View attachment 19643

I went and got the black cable with the latches from my earlier post.

View attachment 19644

The SSD still doesn't exist.

View attachment 19645

I take out the cable and just plug in the SSD using the upper drive bay's power and data cables to force the PowerMac to boot into Sorbet Leopard which is cloned to the SSD using Carbon Copy Cloner as you saw in Part 3.

View attachment 19646

And that just leaves the computer on a blank screen with no Apple logo ... indefinitely... with the fans on full blast.

View attachment 19647

FELLAS, I NEED YOUR HELP​

I'm throwing in the towel and tapping all of you into the ring. Just in case it wasn't clear what I am trying to do, here is a quick summary of my predicament and a run down of my goals:

1. The SATA data cable for the bottom drive bay is out of commission
2. I have used two cables in its place with no success
3. I want to use my Mercury Electra 3G 500GB SSD as a bootable drive with 10.5.9 "Sorbet Leopard" installed
4. The drive is recognized by the system and seen by Disk Utility only when plugged in via an external USB enclosure thus far
5. Plugging the drive into the system using the top bay's cables results in nothing booting even after cloning 10.5.9 "Sorbet Leopard" to it

I chose this SSD because of the testimonies of multiple people across various Mac forums claiming that it's basically a guarantee to work with any PowerPC Mac with a SATA connection, but I'm having the exact opposite experience with all of my troubleshooting.

I noticed that my predicament is practically exactly the same as this individual I discovered on the 68kMLA forums here: https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/powermac-g5-wont-recognize-sata-drive.31488/. I suggest reading the short thread. The individual just ended up using a hard drive instead, which is not what I want after all this time, especially considering there originally WAS a hard drive in the second drive bay that got both it and the data cable demolished once unplugged, suggesting that it was forcefully connected or something I cannot explain. I'd like to be rewarded with a usable SSD after all this hassle. Any working solutions are appreciated.

Alright... Can you still boot off the original Hard Drive in either bay (top or bottom) with any of your cables (short black or long red)? Lets just make sure there are not some other system issues other than the SSD drive at this point.

 

[HrutkayMods]

same SSD I'm using in my 1.6 iMac G5... really not sure why it wouldn't work?

 

[iBookSpeedster88]

Alright... Can you still boot off the original Hard Drive in either bay (top or bottom) with any of your cables (short black or long red)? Lets just make sure there are not some other system issues other than the SSD drive at this point.

Let's try it.

Hard drive out:

Hard drive in:

PowerMac G5 recognizes the drive and safely boots into 10.5.6 Leopard. System Profiler shows the hard drive is plugged in to the bottom drive "B" with no issues:

same SSD I'm using in my 1.6 iMac G5... really not sure why it wouldn't work?

That's why I continued under the assumption that my cables were at fault and not the SSD since I purchased it with its reputation as being guaranteed compatible with PowerPC G5 Macs. Yet, the drive mustn't be at fault either considering it was properly recognized and formatted when plugged in to the PowerMac externally inside of a USB enclosure!

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

I'm curious if you spun up a burned Leopard or Tiger cd/dvd and tried to install a fresh copy of either OS on the SSD via sata, if DU would see it and install to it sans usb. Anyhow, I'd verify disk health in DU to understand the health of the ssd or something like Crystal Disk if you have Windows machine. In my mind it's pointing to the disk. You know its not the data cable or the power cable and you know its not the port on the logic board as the spinner was recognized and booted right up to a functional desktop.

I have had new SSDs of the same make and model where one that is an older revision works w/o issue and another that is a slightly newer revision not show up or work in any capacity in my Powermac G5s (sata3) with updated bits inside. I could see that since it is a new SSD (and not new old stock necessarily) that a similar situation is in play here - folks over the years using an older revision of this branded drive with great results and here you are with a current newer revision of the same branded drive having issues - some new componentry has been introduced into the SSD limiting that purported reverse compatibility with old sata1 macs.

Have you reached out to the SSD manufacturer? Have they recommended anything?

 

[phunguss]

Let's try it.

Hard drive out:

View attachment 19648

Hard drive in:

View attachment 19649

PowerMac G5 recognizes the drive and safely boots into 10.5.6 Leopard. System Profiler shows the hard drive is plugged in to the bottom drive "B" with no issues:

View attachment 19652



That's why I continued under the assumption that my cables were at fault and not the SSD since I purchased it with its reputation as being guaranteed compatible with PowerPC G5 Macs. Yet, the drive mustn't be at fault either considering it was properly recognized and formatted when plugged in to the PowerMac externally inside of a USB enclosure!

The external USB case has a converter/controller in it that converts the SATA to USB. Put the SSD back in the USB external and see if its recognized. If it is not recognized, I call bad SSD. If it is recognized, I have no reason to explain why it does not work.

The only obscure thing that might be a faint possibility is the 3.3v rail. The PowerMac G5 has the 12V, GND, 5V rails on the power cable, but no 3.3V rail. It may be possible that this specific SSD requires the 3.3v rail. Does your external USB case have that 5th wire for 3.3V on the power plug? Some drives may generate their own internal 3.3V if needed, not sure on this SSD.

SATA power plug pinout and Old Tom's Hardware discussion

 

[iBookSpeedster88]

I performed another test by plugging in the SSD to the top drive bay, leaving the Apple hard drive in the bottom bay now knowing that my cable is not an issue. No modifications taken to the current setup. Turned on the PowerMac G5 and I am returned to the blank white screen with no Apple logo. That's interesting. If there was no bootable OS installed to the SSD, shouldn't I be taken to 10.5.6 Leopard which is installed on the Apple hard drive? So, the upper drive bay takes precedence in the boot order, it seems.

Here are the results with this in mind:

1. SSD plugged in to bottom bay "B", hard drive plugged in to upper bay "A"
RESULT: 10.5.6 Leopard boots and the SSD is not mounted nor recognized
2. SSD plugged in to upper bay "A", hard drive plugged in to bottom bay "B"
RESULT: nothing boots and the blank white screen sans Apple logo appears indefinitely
3. SSD is the ONLY drive plugged in regardless of which bay it is plugged in to
RESULT: nothing boots and the blank white screen sans Apple logo appears indefinitely

 

[iBookSpeedster88]

It shouldn't be a surprise, but the retail Leopard DVD doesn't recognize the SSD either and only gives the option to install itself to the hard drive.

OtherWorldComputing used to have a page recommending the OWC Electra 3G SSD as a great drive with guaranteed compatibility for all models of the PowerMac G5. Here is an archive of the webpage in question from 2023:
https://web.archive.org/web/2023100...ales.com/craftcmspreview/ssd/ssd-power-mac-g5

Curiously, the webpage was removed in 2024, and if you attempt to access it today, you'll get a "page not found" error. The SSD is still sold even now, though.